By In this pinnacle of history when activism is more crucial than ever, our Muslim Girl founder Amani, taps into the core conversations shaping our collective future in the debut of her new podcast “Amani On Air.” Join Amani as she unpacks much of the untold stories that happen behind the scenes with Dr. Jill Stein and Dr. Cornel West, two influential figures who continue to define the narrative of activism today.
Note: The conversation is edited for conciseness and clarity.
AMANI: Do you think people not voting or people voting third party are enabling Trump to win?
DR. JILL STEIN: Well, I think Trump is a disaster, but I think Kamala Harris is also a disaster. I think we don’t need to embrace genocide in order to avoid Trump. Like that’s crazy. It’s crazy to say that Donald Trump is the “be-all [and] end-all.” No, I think genocide is the moral imperative of the moment, and do not be persuaded by anybody that you can vote for genocide and not give your support and endorsement to genocide. We should not be talked into losing our humanity. We should not be talked into endorsing genocide.
Already it’s known the American people oppose genocide, and we have to be willing to stand up because our government should be listening to us. If we don’t even vote for genocide, how are we going to ever get them to stop conducting the genocide? So this is a myth and this is what I’ve learned in my many years of dealing with the political system. They want to pretend that we are not powerful.
They will be splitting the pro-war vote. We will be the only anti-war anti-genocide pro-worker climate emergency campaign on the ballot.
As Frederick Douglass says, we have to make the demand. Nobody else is going to do it, and the empire is not going to roll over by itself. They try to talk us out of the power, and that’s what they’re doing. That’s what one propaganda campaign after another is all about. It’s about talking us out of our power, but there will be several pro-genocide pro-war candidates on the ballot.
They will be splitting the pro-war vote. We will be the only anti-war anti-genocide pro-worker climate emergency campaign on the ballot. We could be unifying a whole lot of people.
DR. CORNEL WEST: Sister Harris has taken a stand, and her stand is one of genocide denial and genocide enablement. That is the stand that she’s taken so far. She could change her mind. She could change policy, but there’s no way to stand above the fray at this point. We’ll go right ahead.
And now it’s being stirred up by Democratic Party operatives that are trying to characterize those of us who are critical of sister Harris as if we are traitors or as we are blasphemed, but as if we are betrayers of the Black community because we’re standing against genocide, but we also stand against mass incarceration.
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We also stand against poverty. You see, sister Harris doesn’t stand against poverty in any substantive way. She doesn’t have an anti-poverty program that would abolish poverty at all. She’s very much tied to corporate interests. She’s very much tied to big tech and big money. We can see that in terms of her call for the corporate capital gains taxes to be so low, much lower than what Biden himself called for.
But the question becomes, you can’t effectively fight fascism with your own lives and your own crimes. If that’s the only thing you have to oppose fascism, then fascism will come.
So in that sense, just a matter of truth. I don’t mind people saying, “We struggle with truth and justice, and we come down in different ways in terms of our strategies and tactics.” But when you say, “Oh, those who want to highlight genocide against precious Palestinians are somehow being anti-Black because we don’t support Harris,” you see, to me, that is what is just so vulgar, crude, and thoroughly wrong.
And I think Trump is a fascist. So we’re fighting Trump. But the question becomes, you can’t effectively fight fascism with your own lives and your own crimes. If that’s the only thing you have to oppose fascism, then fascism will come. It’s just a matter of time.
So we have to be honest; either [way], we’re going to tell the truth. Let’s tell the truth. If you have no interest in truth, then let me know. If it’s just going to be all Machiavellian expediency and strategy and tactics, then just tell me that.
Is what we’re witnessing right now a war between religions or two nations?
J.S: I think there have been conflicts like this, but this is not a religious conflict, this is not a conflict between Jews and Muslims and Christians, this is about Zionism which is a political ideology that is fascist, that is racist.
Because you have been a victim of genocide and the Jews were a victim of genocide and a victim of anti-Semitism in Europe, that’s where anti-Semitism lives.
Anti-Semitism is not a phenomenon of the Middle East, it’s a phenomenon of Europe. So Jews came with a history of incredible persecution but having been persecuted does not then give you a license to then persecute others.
C.W: When Martin Luther King Jr. was shot, 72% of Americans disapproved of him. And 51% of black people disapproved of him because he cut against the grain when they were flag waivers, and he was a cross-bearer. And he said that every flag was under the cross as a Christian for him. As a Muslim, every flag is under Allah. If you’re going to worship a nation-state and worship a flag, that is anti-idolatry.
And that’s true for Judaism. That’s true for Christianity, and it’s true for Islam, right? Anti-idolatry sits at the very center of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
There is but one God. [If] all of a sudden, Allah is subordinate to a flag. Then you know idolatry is taking place.
So you see how the idolatry becomes; it’s a spiritual level that we’re talking about. This is far beyond politics, but it has political consequences because it appeals to the worst of who we are.
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