By My social media feed erupted last night with news of the anti-Islam Phoenix mosque rally. Pictures of gun-toting white men, angry supremacists, and hate-filled bloggers encouraging them behind the scenes combined in a depressing cacophony of pointed fingers and misplaced rage. And what’s worse is the frightening media coverage that always seems to have the most ridiculous euphemisms for the bigots that line up with their guns pointed at innocent Muslims outside an American mosque: bikers, protestors, people. The mainstream media never fails its white terrorists.
However, something else has also come to life amidst the antagonistic tension: a refreshing hashtag. The Campaign to Take On Hate organized an online counter-protest to the Phoenix mosque rally using the hashtag #NotMyAmerica.
And this hashtag has brought with it a flurry of beautiful hope amidst a Twitter feed of increasing animosity.
From Muslim sisters and brothers…
To Jewish friends…
To Sikh comrades…
To fellow Americans everywhere…
#NotMyAmerica has shown the true colors of freedom, justice, and compassion spattered all over the internet.
We are the digital generation. Acts of hate, acts of terror, acts of malice, and acts of inhumanity across all demographics only strengthen our solidarity. So, while the gun-weilding, hate-spewing, anti-Muslim protestors stand rallying outside the Phoenix mosque, we take to our computers in counter-protest. While hate stands at the steps of a mosque in Arizona, love spreads like wildfire across the internet. That is my America.
—
Photo courtesy of John Sheehan
It didn’t backfire at all haha. Some subhuman mudmen tweeted in opposition of it… as is unfortunately their right. You are a mudslime so I’m sure you simply don’t understand the fact that someone can disagree with you without making you incorrect.
Actually it did backfire and was a huge slap in the face of the organizers of the anti-Islam rally. Never did they imagine that so many from all religions and all walks of life would stand in solidarity with the Muslims. I watched it all on live stream and as the sun was setting it clearly showed the desperation of those shouting such cruel, vulgar and untrue lies. Even with everything they said and did it did not phase the Muslims they were verbally attacking! I am sure some of those have laryngitis this morning and for what? It just made their “cause” look bad for all the world to see.
thats weird i didnt see any of that. it was a bunch of rednecks walking around with guns. you saw what you wanted to see.
good. so I guess we don’t need any sort of outrage about cartoons of Muhammad anymore. it is clear muslims will not react violently. let the bus ads run.
It is not hate it is fear of what the muslims believe in their Karan. We frown upon rape and we have equal rights here we women work and drive ourselves we dress like we want we dont want foreigners coming telling us what we are going to do. The Muslims do not let us come into their country carrying a bible but they put up places to warship here in our country and we are suppose to except what ever and they cry they are offended if we object why dont they empty their prissons of our people that have been torchered for their belief if you cant let our people go dont expect our country to except your religion or your values
Linda, most people fear the things that they do not understand. I implore you to study Islam not because you would want to become Muslim but to set your mind at ease. What do you know about what Muslims believe in the Quran. Have you ever read it? The Quran forbids rape, adultery, and fornication and any one doing so is not following the Quran or what is in it. Christians also rape but that is also not in the bible (or is it?) Women were hijab but have you ever seen a picture of the virgin Mary with her hair uncovered? Did you know that there are Christians who live in Muslim countries. They have their own places of worship there and do not fear their neighbors. Just like you have a right to build a church in America and worship Jesus, Muslims also have the right to build a mosque and worship Allah – it’s called freedom of religion and it’s what many men have fought and died for. Are Christians the only one that can live in America and worship here? Did you know that during the life of Muhammad that prisoners were kept and were not abused or tortured? But Christians came to this country and slaughtered almost an entire race of people (the Native Americans) over land and their desire for wealth – not to mention that they land was worked and their riches made on the back of slaves. There are always two sides to every coin and two sides to every story but don’t confuse a religion and the followers as the same things because even Christians claim to believe in the bible and follow Jesus but their actions show other wise – the same goes for Muslim. Terrorist groups do not speak for me or my religion just like the Hilter doesn’t speak for you and yours.
I think linda is confused between the Koran and the sunnah. I think she means to refer to the hadith on coitus interruptus when she talks of rape being allowed.
funny that you compare Muhammad to Christians. shouldn’t you compare him to jesus? if you want to compare muslims to Christians, then so be it. but one man to billions is silly. are you familiar with the caliphate Timur? he beheaded 70,000 Christians in tikrit and 90,000 in Baghdad. and that was in the 15th century.
but let’s talk about the actions of Muhammad. when conquering mecca he had 360 pagan idols destroyed. he doesn’t sound very religiously tolerant to me.
Wow, amerikans frown upon rape when 1-6 women have been a victim of rape/sexual abuse abd the leading cause for death if amerikan women is domestic abuse. Tell me more about anerikas love for its women. There are laws being passed right now where vuctims of abuse and rape have to keep their babies, lol worry about what’s going on right here with your bibles. The innocent people that were and are being tortured, in the name safety. The innocent people in jail because of racism. The sick and perverse acts committed to prisoners. Keep your nonsense talk for those who dont live here and may be able to accept the lies. Otherwise keep existing in your perfect white delusional world. Murikkka yeah!
They claim to fear anything non-white and non-Christian. Anxiety must be killing them.
Narrated ‘Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”
search the truth gina.
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=84&translator=1
America has it’s flaws and the free press to lay them bare for the world to see. as opposed to Islamic countries that put blogers in jail and lash them. or in Bangladesh the muslim mobs kill you for being an atheist. you want to talk about institutional racism, in iran a Baha’i is not even considered a person and can be killed by a muslim without any fear of legal reproductions. under Islamic law, a murderer can pay blood money and be set free. talk about a system skewed to the rich. in the UAE a woman reported being raped, and couldn’t produce 4 witnesses. so she was jailed for fornication and perjury.
Yeah, like the whistleblowers they jail, that have to leave the country or face prosecution. Your rape victims have to carry around the beds that they were raped on to be noticed, because the system sure won’t and don’t confuse culture with the religion of islam, that is where you people make the mistake and sound ignorant because you can’t tell the difference and amerika “saying it has flaws” is a mere understatement. I live here, I know…. I am not blinded by the red, white and blue, I know the red stands for the blood of the innocent, the white stands for the privilege and the blue for the badges the rich stand behind. I suggest you study Islam, not something you read off of some blog, there is no such thing as paying blood money and you really studied sharia you would know that. But like fox news, you find something ridiculous on the internet and spread it around. Your ignorance is embarrassing. Especially those who study, know you speak of culture not Islam…LOL Blood MOney…. LOL Ignorance can be corrected.
well if you live here, certainly you know that rape victims don’t have the ‘carry around the beds’ to get noticed. all they have to do is go to the police.
I asked the iman at a local mosque and he very much agreed with diyya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyya go to chatislamonline.com as the muslims there.
and are you talking about snowden?
Oh and people don’t seem to bat an eyelash, while scores of Muslims are being killed right now. Spare me your nonsense, what you are talking about is not Islam, it is the people that pervert it. No book teaches that, dumb people don’t know the difference between culture and real islam. If you don’t then don’t be stupid and spead this non-sense.
no book teaches what? that you need 4 witnesses to rape? blood money isn’t part of Islamic fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence)? in fact is it not considered ijma (consensus)?
you are right, people don’t bat an eye at the Islamic State or the civil war in Syria or Boko Haram. why is that? if muslims are to enjoin the good and forbid the evil, why don’t muslims do something about this ‘evil’.
Ahem
it is good to see that the threshold for being called a terrorist in America is to show up armed, in an open carry state, and to state an unpopular opinion. if in fact that was all the terrorist acts seen on American soil in the last 20 years, we wouldn’t even have a need for these events.
No place is safe from hate. What I find most horrifying is the justifications. No matter the horror people will always find a way to justify it, whether it is ISIS or Neo-Nazis.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/atheists-are-being-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh-and-soon-there-will-be-none-left-10144599.html
yes, blasphemy is one of the worst justifications you will ever find. religion is often used to justify hatred.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Pakistan
How do you determine that?
how do I determine what?
that blasphemy is one of the worst justification? because almost anything could be called blasphemy.
or that religion is often used to justify hatred? from a casual reading of history and the news.
So if someone is murdered, maimed, or raped for blasphemy it is worse than if they are murdered, maimed, or raped for racists, nationalists, economic, or political reasons?
no. where did I say anything about murder? if you are dead you are dead. but of course there is a difference between murder and killing. a mass murderer executed by the state is ‘less worse’ than a person killed by the mass murderer. I don’t follow your logic here? if you are saying that ‘hate crime’ laws are silly? then I agree. you are no less dead if someone kills you to take your money, then if the do it because they hate your race.
what makes hate motivated from blasphemy worse, is the religious aspect and the belief in defense of something sacred. religious people are often willing to sacrifice all in this world for their perceived next world. and it is clearly a greater motivator than actual human lives. the religious will sooner kill to defend the ‘sacred’ then anything else.
That’s an interesting assertion. Can you support it?
what assertion do you want me to support? you keep saying THAT as if I’m to know what you are talking about? I asserted in that comment that it is ‘less worse’ to execute a murderer, although resulting in death, then the death that is a result of the murder. I asserted that ‘hate crime’ laws are silly. and I asserted that the religious are willing to sell their lives of this world for the ‘next’ to defend the ‘sacred’. so which do you want me to support?
if you want to hold others to a high level of literalism, you should at least be somewhat literal yourself. so what is THAT?
That is an excellent point. You are burning through assertion after assertion without supporting any of them. You claim that blasphemy is the worst justification for … well, something, and then provide no way to measure this. Then rather than setting a standard, such as rapes, murder, or maimings committed, you decide to ignore that. Then rather then showing how religious motivations are worse than say racist or nationalistic motivations you side step, just as you did with state sanctioned murder. Rather than looking at the thousands of years of state sanctioned, motivated, and driven murder you focus on the death penalty and not the killing of dissidents and the genocide after genocide for profit and colonization. But rather than holding religion and belief by the same standard you paint it with the most inaccurate and broad strokes possible. Moving past this willful double standard, you than attempt to say that all crimes should be treated the same as though faith, race, ethnic, or even political motivations don’t play into crime. Then you decided to throw hate crimes into the mix, apparently because it is time to say anything without justifications. So, do you have any data to support your case or just MORE CAPITALS?
“That is an excellent point. You are burning through assertion after assertion without supporting any of them. You claim that blasphemy is the worst justification for … well, something,” SOMETHING. for hate. per your comment about hate. plus I said ‘one of the worst’. you should read more carefully.
“and then provide no way to measure this.” like I said, this is my opinion do to casual observation of the world. obviously there is no way to quantify this. how do you quantify hate?
“Then rather than setting a standard, such as rapes, murder, or maimings committed, you decide to ignore that.” it is a non-sequitur.
“Then rather then showing how religious motivations are worse than say racist or nationalistic motivations you side step,” how did I side step. racist and nationalistic motivations are often intertwined with religious motivations.
“just as you did with state sanctioned murder.” wtf are you talking about now? ‘state sanctioned murder’? I’m against the death penalty. but I would still say that execution of a murderer is ‘less worse’ than murder of an innocent. but if you love religion so much, you might want to read the bible and the Koran. both of which say a ‘life for a life’.
“Rather than looking at the thousands of years of state sanctioned, motivated, and driven murder you focus on the death penalty and not the killing of dissidents and the genocide after genocide for profit and colonization.” lol. show me the thousands of years when the state wasn’t driven by religion. the thousands of years when blasphemy wasn’t used against dissidents and for profit by the church and the caliphate?
“But rather than holding religion and belief by the same standard you paint it with the most inaccurate and broad strokes possible. ” see, there you go again. so I am painting ‘belief’ with the most… your pronoun to antecedent relationship is truly Abrahamic. I think you mean I’m painting religion with some inaccurate broad strokes.? yes. I paint religion and the concept of blasphemy with the broad stroke of BEING BAD. has this been unclear to you for some reason.
“Moving past this willful double standard,” what double standard are you talking about?
“you than attempt to say that all crimes should be treated the same as though faith, race, ethnic, or even political motivations don’t play into crime.” wtf. you brought up murder out of nowhere. you said that all murders are equal. I said I agree. no you are saying they are not? which is it. I said murder is murder, regardless of political or economic motivation. you are the one with the double standard if you believe a hate crime is worse than an economic crime.
“Then you decided to throw hate crimes into the mix, apparently because it is time to say anything without justifications.” again, you brought up motivations for murder out of the clear blue. I agreed with you that a dead man is dead.
“So, do you have any data to support your case or just MORE CAPITALS?” do I have data to support my case that blasphemy is one of the worst motivations for hate. just antidotal evidence. read my links.
how about we look at the two events recently. two muslims drive from phoenix to texas to actually shoot at people for drawing cartoons of Muhammad. a 100 or so bikers and what not go to a mosque to protest what? for free speech and no one is even shot at or killed. so who are the fanatics? who has greater hate?
salman rushdie vs the muslim who tried to kill him?
theo van gogh vs…
the dutch newspaper
Charlie hedbo
I see. Well thank you for your opinion then.
I always think it is helpful when people can support there opinion with evidence but as you admit you only have anecdotal cases to support it. You select only the evidence that could support your perspective and turn a willing blind eye to the rest. (And it was your links that that brought murder in. The very first thing you posted was about murder and then you want to say I brought murder up.)
But let’s cut to the chase here. Your motivation isn’t about discovering the real cause for hate or evil. You, like billions of people today and before, have a desire to be better than average to be greater than there fellow man. You want to show how you are better than others because you, in your enlightenment, have “freed” yourself from religion. The truth is that you are equally motivated as all human beings to draw conclusions and opinions that have nothing to do with what is really going on. You wish to show some better way but just provide more of the same ideologically driven belief that has been peddled before just repackaged with whatever is popular today.
If that makes you feel better than so be it, but I don’t think you should conflate that with knowledge especially when you make unsubstantiated claims, cheery picked news and current events, and misrepresent history and documents.
“Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.
well thank you for your opinion that hate based on religious motivation/blasphemy is not one of the worst kinds of hate. your deflection from the topic and redirection is no doubt well thought out and ….what is the word I’m looking for? hilarious. so because people are murdered for racial, political and economic reasons or just in domestic fits of rage, we should say that Islamic ideology that leads to these incidence around ‘blasphemy’ is no big deal. so 9/11 was no big deal because only 3,000 died. 6 million died in the holocaust. hell, 40,000 americans die in car accidents year. don’t worry about the Islamic State, they are no Pol Pot.
I’m the one who thinks he is better than others? now who is turning the blind eye to people who claim prophet hood and deity status. but most certainly I believe in freedom of speech. I believe separation of religion and governance is better than religion being imposed on the populace. I hope those are still popular today. in fact I think they are growing in popularity around most of the world.
‘cherry-picking’! talk about just taking what is popular today. what did you go to ‘how to defend islam’ class. just say ‘historic context’ cherry picking’ next you will employee the ben Affleck defense, just yell bigot over and over. this article is about an event that is taking place because 2 muslim men tried to shot people for what they considered blasphemous speech. thus, I posted articles about blasphemy. that is not cherry-picking, that is being topical.
what history have I misrepresented?
also, let me ask you this: do you think people shouldn’t say something because someone else might consider it blasphemous?
What did I deflect? 🙂
And is it Islamic ideology? An Islamic ideology? Or the Islamic ideology? Have you read the Quran? I know for simplicity sack you, much like ISIS and al-Qaeda need a simplistic view of Islam to exist. Without it you, and them, would have to admit to the complex nature of humans and how willful distortion of texts, apparently unread, can be used to justify horrendous actions. It doesn’t matter if it is the Quran, the Communist Manifesto, or the Constitution of the United States, the text can be used to “prove” whatever you desire and is. In the United States there are a shrinking group of people, thank God, who think that equal rights are denied to other humans because of their sexual orientation. Thankfully over time the majority who used the Constitution to justify slavery have receded to practically nil. (See how I use “practically nil” because to make broad sweeping statements about all people. It would be disingenuous.)
And where did I say anything was no big deal. You are stating that one particular ideology is more harmful than others. That somehow religion is the big bad of oppression. You can have that opinion, a right defended in the Quran, but that doesn’t make it accurate. You don’t even support it except with two links. And the reason you do this is because there is no actually evidence to support it, just emotional arguments. I suppose though using your logic the attack on Pearl Harbor was “no big deal” because it was motivated by nationalism. Or the holocaust was “no big deal” because it was motivated by racism. Or the slaughter of how many Native Americans because of how many reasons? Or what about the slaughter of the faithful of various beliefs by various so called Communist regimes around the world to further the goals of atheism? And further, by your logic, the last would be the direct result of atheism and the beliefs it entails? No. It would be disingenuous to hold that you believe such. Especially since you are a crusader of atheism, and crusaders never see the wrong in their beliefs. The rest though would be a willing distortion of what you have stated to “support” my position. But if I need to use such manipulation my case can’t be very strong, can it?
“I’m the one who thinks he is better than others? now who is turning the blind eye to people who claim prophet hood and deity status.”
These couple of sentences are point in fact what I was talking about regarding distortion and misrepresentation. You respond to my statement about your position that you are right and then throw in some none sense about “prophet hood and deity status” to muddy the waters. Rather than owning up to your own arrogance you are somewhere between the kid who insists that he isn’t doing that and the kid who says he should be able to because his friend can.
I am glad that you “believe in freedom of speech” and “separation of religion and governance [better] better than religion being imposed on the populace”. Millions of Muslims and other religionists agree with you. But you prop this up as though they don’t as though millions of Muslims around the world are struggling for those rights or struggling to maintain those rights. People from around, including Muslims, look to the US as a beacon these rights, but than some people insist that they don’t because they hate them for no reason. They haven’t even meet them and they decide that 9/11 and ISIS are all they need to know about the beliefs of over a billion people on this pale blue dot.
Which leads us directly to the cherry picking I previously stated. I understand that to support your case you need people to believe that is all there is to Islam because without it your case falls down. This is the exact same situation that ISIS and these other terrorist are in. They need Muslims to believe they have no choice but them because people in America claim that all Muslims are terrorist while also proclaiming freedom of religion and speech. They need people like you and the armed who stand outside places of worship to justify what they do. Fortunately for America all Muslims are not like them and thankfully for Muslims not all Americans are like you. There are some who actually believe in freedom and understand that all people are created equal. Most Americans believe in inalienable rights and not judging people you don’t even know. And they, and Muslims who actually read the Quran, are going to be the ones that inherit the earth. Hate, prejudice, and bigotry will always rear their ugly head whether it is pro or anti a particular religion, race, or whatever else people can find but people like you and ISIS will not succeed in causing to spread. Evil always eventually loses.
I hope I have also cleared up the history you have misrepresented. I feel confident that it doesn’t matter what I say because you have prejudged me, Islam, and billions of people around the world. I wish it wasn’t so, but it doesn’t matter what I wish. The most I could do is try. Maybe you will hear me and let go of the hate you grip so tightly. I can only pray right.
“do you think people shouldn’t say something because someone else might consider it blasphemous?”
Not even a yes or no question? 🙂 To say no is to support blasphemy laws and to say yes is to support blasphemy laws, right?
People should be allowed to say whatever they wish, just like it says in the Quran.
wow. there is a lot in there. the old baffle em with bullshit. ok. I don’t have time for all this right now. but let me start with, yes, I’ve read much of the Koran and many hadiths. second, you should read the 2014 pew survey on muslim beliefs.
the link won’t past for some reason. just google, pew survey muslim beliefs. third I’ve never paint muslims with a broad brush. I know the difference between the ahmadi and the alawites. the salafi and the sufi. do you? have you read the Koran? where doe it state you have freedom of speech? 2:256?
I will exist with or without islam in this world or any other religion. you make no sense. as for atheist being mass murderers. no doubt. Stalin was a total bastard. see you are deflecting again. you don’t want to bring up the reign of terror? as you deflected away from the debate about the ignorant masses in the age of mass communications who still believe you should kill someone for blasphemy.
how does my case against blasphemy law fall down if I admit some good things about islam.
you have straighten out what history that I misrepresented? what history did I even talk about?
Sahih International
4:86 And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet [in return] with one better than it or [at least] return it [in a like manner]. Indeed, Allah is ever, over all things, an Accountant.
you have a good evening sam. i’ll be back.
“I’ve read much of the Koran and many hadiths.”
If I only read the parts of Western history that can be made to make all Westerners butchers would that be the enough? (Makes me think of those people who say “All I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9/11.) Perhaps reading is bs for you but for many of us it is not. 🙂
Please feel free to read the Quran:
https://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/private/cmje/religious_text/The_Message_of_The_Quran__by_Muhammad_Asad.pdf
You are painting all of them with the same brush. Why would you deny that? Over and over again you say Muslims, inclusively, believe this or that. You even use a survey to support your case. A survey I find it hard to believe you read. That survey, in the very opening, shows the vast diversity of opinion amongst Muslims. Not the least of which is the diversity over what sharia is. This is a helpful link for that: http://religiondispatches.org/welcome-to-the-shariah-conspiracy-theory-industry/
2:256, 10:99, 6:106-107, and 39:14-15 all hold that religion is not a matter of state policy and that each individual can believe as they wish. The freedom of expression I spoke of is discussed at 22:68-69, 11:118, and 6:112. To say otherwise would be to contradict the Quran. Odd that so many would disregard that. More of that cherry-picking you suggest you and many others are not committing.
Where did I say that you will not exist without Islam. I thought you said I should read what is written. Would you be so kind as to lead by example?
I am deflecting what? You are deflecting that Stalin murdered millions for his atheist goals, yes? I suppose the reign of terror would be another example of atheist violence run rampant but I understand. You don’t want to take any responsibility for the mass murder of the religious in the name of the anti-religious but want all religious to take responsibility for the murders by the religious. More importantly you seem to be missing the point. You are not responsible for anyone else’s actions and neither am I. Atheism is not responsible for any murders just as Islam is not. It is not ideology that kills people. It is people. People who find motivation in whatever they can manipulate. Those two girls killed that other girl because of the Slender Man. Where there is a will…
What good things have you admitted about Islam? Blasphemy laws are atrocious just like Russia’s anti-gay laws or China’s anti-religion laws.
I find it interesting how you don’t seem to actually be reading what I write or what you write. :/
I’ll leave with a final article: http://religiondispatches.org/whats-islamophobia-and-do-i-have-it/
Go in peace. I hope you find overcome your misconceptions. Thank you for your time and opinions.
what are you talking about with your ‘western history’ non-sense. read whatever western history you want.
yes, everyone is responsible for their own actions. this goes without saying. and I clearly have never deflected from what atheist have done. I’m the one who mentioned Stalin and the reign of terror.
nor have I painted all muslims with the same brush.
I take it your usc link is to Muhammad asad’s ‘the message of the quran’. no need for the link. I have the hard back copy.
good things about islam. it say to write down contracts. it gave women some inheritance rights that didn’t exist in that part of the world at that time. it said to treat your slaves well. to feed them what you ate, clothe them in similar clothes and not to make them do work you wouldn’t do. the charter of medina was a pretty good document for it’s time. the treaty of huddiyyah.
I read what you write, but it is mostly non-sense and hard to follow. I’m taking about blasphemy laws and people killed because of actual muslim enforcing sharia. you are babbling on about ‘misrepresented’ history. I’ve never misrepresented history.
so the surveys of muslims mean nothing to you?
so you have read the Koran? you believe in jinn? tell me, can jinn have sex with humans? did Solomon talk to ants? can you tell me where gog and magog are.
[22.68] And if they contend with you, say: Allah best knows what you do.
[22.69] Allah will judge between you on the day of resurrection respecting that in which you differ.
[10.99] And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?
[6.106] Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; there is no god but He; and withdraw from the polytheists.
[6.107] And if Allah had pleased, they would not have set up others (with Him) and We have not appointed you a keeper over them, and you are not placed in charge of them.
[39.14] Say: Allah (it is Whom) I serve, being sincere to Him in my obedience:
[39.15] Serve then what you like besides Him. Say: The losers surely are those who shall have lost themselves and their families on the day of resurrection; now surely that is the clear loss.
sure you don’t want to throw in 49:13 [49.13] O you men! surely We have created you of a male and a female, and made you tribes and families that you may know each other; surely the most honorable of you with Allah is the one among you most careful (of his duty); surely Allah is Knowing, Aware.
none of this has anything to do with freedom of speech.
you would be better served to cherry-pick the hadith were Muhammad gets garbage thrown on him by a pagan woman everyday. then one day she doesn’t. so Muhammad goes upstairs to see if she is ok. she is sick and he prays for her…blah blah blah. or the time he is praying and abu jahl throws sheep intestines on him. Muhammad does nothing. then again we all know the fate of abu jahl after the battle of badr.
but you keep googling.
all I need to know about islam I learned from reading the Koran, the hadiths, the book of jihad by ibn nuhaas, the book: jinn and devils in the light of the quran and sunnah and al-ghazali’s ‘the incoherence of philosophers’. oh yeah, and talking to muslims. you should go to chatislamonline.com or islamqa.com or checkout the ‘peace tv’ guy.
i deny paint all of anybody with the same brush, other than all the people who support executing someone for blasphemy. I’ve never said islam is a monolith of thought and consensus. even the concept of consensus ijma, is not always agreed upon.
I’m reading what you write. now you have brought up slender man. see, that is deflection. but at least you have said: “Blasphemy laws are atrocious just like Russia’s anti-gay laws or China’s anti-religion laws.” amen.
so my question to you is, if the Koran allows for freedom of speech, why do Islamic countries have laws against it?
“And is it Islamic ideology? An Islamic ideology? Or the Islamic ideology” lol. any or all of the above. so now you want to debate like the UN did for 6 months over the use of the word ‘the’ in a resolution? so you don’t support blasphemy laws? good to hear.
Do I? Perhaps if you were more specific I could respond more appropriately to your inquiries. 🙂
you tell me.
do you support blasphemy laws?
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/05/28/which-countries-still-outlaw-apostasy-and-blasphemy/
If I may share some links myself I think you may be surprised by a few things. 🙂
This first one actually discusses what shariah is. There is certainly a lot of confusion and misinformation on that.
http://religiondispatches.org/welcome-to-the-shariah-conspiracy-theory-industry/
This article actually discusses some of the foundation for that misinformation and the distortion that goes with it.
http://religiondispatches.org/whats-islamophobia-and-do-i-have-it/
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
now it takes? go figure. must have been a ghost in the machine. or maybe the ghost?
Did you read this link? 🙂
yes. I’ve read it several times. do you need me to break it down for ya?
You stated “I’ve read much of the Koran and many hadiths” and now “I’ve read it several times.”
I think we just got to the root of what is going on here. Thank you for your time. When you decide to start being honest feel free to come back. Until then go in peace. 🙂
the survey. yes. I’ve read it several times. do you need me to break it down for ya?
mike Sam • 9 hours ago
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/0…
now it takes? go figure. must have been a ghost in the machine. or maybe the ghost?
Sam mike • 2 hours ago
Did you read this link? 🙂
mike Sam • 31 minutes ago
yes. I’ve read it several times. do you need me to break it down for ya?
we believe that we will live for all eternity and we will not marry or have sex in heaven. God is a good God he says we will not murder or we wont make it to heaven. King James Bible has scriptures that say what God allows and what he doesnt allow. Murder is not allowed. Women finally can vote and work and we dont want to go backwards. I am a widow and the Muslim law does not allow me on the street without a man. I dont want the muslim law. We expect the same kind of treatment in our religion in the Islamic nations and they put our people in jail and persecute them and you want us to welcome you with open arms.We have a great free country and we dont want to become a third world countrycome here is because if our freedom
Linda, it is heart breaking that your posts are so full of contempt for something that you do not really understand. It is heart breaking that you are so full of hate for an entire religion. Surely your religion does not preach hate and in fact tells you to love your enemies. As, Muslims, we are taught that the life of this world is temporary. We are born, we live, and we will return to our creator after we die. The reward for the righteous is paradise but really no where in the Quran does it say anything about having sex in heaven. Where did you learn this? Also, I am very sorry for the loss of your husband. In Islam, we are not told that when we are widowed that they can not walk in the streets with out a man. They are free to come and go as they please and live their lives the way that want to. Where did you learn this? Did you know that in the Quran it says that if a person were to kill another person it would be as if he had killed all of mankind? Where did you learn that it is ok in Islam to murder people? It is a grave sin and one which is punishable with hell. Did you know that in the Quran there is also the story of Adam and Eve, the story of Noah, Moses, and Jesus and his mother Mary are also mentioned in the Quran- among many others that are also mentioned in the bible.. Our religion is not so very different from yours if only you would stop and listen with an open heart. Hate can be a really ugly thing and can cause a person to do things that they would not normally do or say.
Would you be so kind as to provide scripture to support “we will not marry or have sex in heaven”?
Where is murder forbidden in Heaven? And where is murder in heaven supported in the Quran?
“Women finally can vote and work and we dont want to go backwards.” Where is this in the Bible? Did you know that Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, and Indonesia have all had female Prime Ministers or Presidents?
“I am a widow and the Muslim law does not allow me on the street without a man.” Can you support that in the Quran?
“We expect the same kind of treatment in our religion in the Islamic nations” Would you be so kind as to restate this?
“they put our people in jail and persecute them” Who?
“you want us to welcome you with open arms” What nation do you think I was born in? What nation do you think most Muslims in the US were born in? Are you saying that only Christians are born in the US?
“We have a great free country and we dont want to become a third world country” And having immigrants causes that?
“come here is because if our freedom” True.
Well from what I can see from here is that American and western muslims are in big trouble. Nothing backfired and the days of Western pretend to be tolerant days are gone as far as muslims are concerned. Sikhs have been abused too just only because they were MISTAKEN as muslims. So a gesture from them well fine. Days are not far behind when you will have rights less than animals. They want reciprocity from muslim majority nations which muslim nations don,t provide(WELL LET US SEE THE HISTORY OF WEST IS FILLED WITH INSTANCES OF RECIPROCITY). Secondly historic non muslim communities have had existed in muslim countries , it does not matter and other thing that does not matter to them is muslim minorities in west is only decade old phenomenon, apart from spain and eastern europe(where muslims were peacefully shown the door ofcourse) just bcause they were supposedly ruled by muslim for centuries and ironically remained non muslim majority countries. The best option for muslims in west is to leave islam for the sake of their children hoping dignified life and hope for the best in the future. ADVICE- Leave Islam and integrate. Otherwise PEST CONTROL is not far behind.
Protecting your kids from alienation is important. Listen if there is an Allah there and if you live in the west I think he would forgive you for leaving Islam for the sake of your children. Children of west have many things and facilities kids in third world could not even dream of. Western culture is open economically, socially and sexually. In countries like India its ok to live in different localities and for people for same religion or race or ethnicity to marry within their own. While in west though that is not the case. Disallowing your son and daughter not marry the person could backfire completly. Its the constant urge to integrate with the west along with practicing Islam especially for teenagers to behave like their peers is whats wrong with Western muslims today. More profound with female kids though due to restrictive nature of our society. Its unnatural unwilling obedience to something that they don,t want to do is the problem. Praying 5 times a day, zakat, namaaz is easy and most muslims in middle east, africa and Asia used to keep to only such activities. Its the need and desire for recognition through religion to be understood and identified is where the problem really lies. Ofcourse kids want to be like their peers and when they are told they are different they get alienated to a mindset that is contrary to what they see around them. The questions would be like 1) Is it really bad to be friends with people of other gender(especially for muslim women, also for men but less profound) 2) why the people treat me differently(almost everywhere muslims are treated differently) 3) why don,t everyone like me(a preconceived notion in muslim teenagers mind proved wrong all the time) 4) Being told you are different somehow. 5) Last one is tricky if it is a girl, why can,t I date a non muslim man when boys can(NOT TRUE ALWAYS I ASSURE YOU MUSLIM SOCIETY CAN BE PRETTY NASTY IN BOYS CASE TOO. Even though punishment is less ABANDONMENT IS THE MOST COMMON MEANS.) Long story short western muslims must embrace western customs completely to live comfortably with their fellow nationals. Otherwise it would be like clashes or you can take hint from secular jews. If you fear losing Islam is a cultural loss then be secular muslim or non practicing muslim. Any civilized person must understand that despite being from muslim background you value your heritage highly in no way you can be judged by Quran and hadith alone. But complete history good and bad. Contrary to popular beliefs it was not all bad(make a joke out if see if I give a fuck) it was good too. Take pride of what good you can do to society and don,t fear repurcussions. Even people of western descent portray their history as peaceful, and are unapologetic and are proud. I would not blame them how could you hate your culture and heritage. DISCLAIMER- Its my opinion.
Nobody needs your advice.. its funny how the world is full of ignorant ppl like you that talk for the sake of being heard.. do the world a favor and keep your thoughts to yourself!!
if Muslims want their laws and customs they need to leave our country because the things they do in the name of their religion is against our laws and customs.
As an American and a Muslim I have ever right to be here. I was born here, my forefathers were born here. Not only did my ancestors first settle this land but they fought for America’s freedom. They fought fought not just for their freedom from a tyrant ruler but also for freedom of religion (which everyone is entitled to) and the the right to live their lives as they saw fit.
from your lips to the ummah’s ear. oddly enough, it is islam that actually says the opposite.
Racism, savagery toward anyonewho doesn’t believe the way you do. Indoctrination for all races your people have come into contact with andyou call it civilizing them? Police brutality,unfair treatment of non-whites. Your another person that really needs to take a look in their own backyard. Your traditions ,customs and way of life is steeped in blood, dont’t sit there like “we’re xristian and white, so we’re right” i was born here and I’m Muslim and have the right to say what I want. Bigot.
It’s like the very ones who will kill to keep their rights are always the ones trying to take away the rights of other people. The biggest hypocrites ever.
You mean like police brutality where cops kill people on video and not serve a day in prison? Linda Wischow
Don’t you find it interesting how the National Guard no where to be found to deter these “peaceful protesters” with guns?
usually the national guard isn’t called in until after a riot. did I miss some news? was there a riot in phoenix? cnn must be sleeping? everything I’m hearing is that the protest was peaceful. no shots fired, no bottle thrown. no shops looted.
do you find it interesting that these guys were better behaved than citizens of Ferguson and Baltimore? weren’t the cops there and armed? isn’t that an ‘instigation’?
They were not peaceful. Why did they go to a place of worship with weapons? They were there with t-shirts on with F Islam and saying nasty things to them. That is vile and bullying. If you don’t understand what happened and thousands do understand, including the DOJ, then yes, you are missing something.
it is an open carry state. they were advocating for open carry laws. the gun nuts do that all the time. google video of open carry advocate.
a t-shirt isn’t violent. just like a cartoon isn’t. the DOJ is investigating the people in this rally? what does the DOJ have to do with anything?
You obviously don’t understand what harassment looks like. I hope you never have to learn the hard way. I can see it will be difficult for you to be careful since you appear to not have any empathy for the rights of others.
are you talking about police harassment now? or the protester harassment? yes the protesters are harassing the muslims. but they are allowed to.
Then what about christians in lebanon, egypt, tunisia, indonesia and malaysia even pakistan should they be kicked out too. Just asking. I am not ready to excuse hypocrites anywhere be it muslim and non muslim
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-coptic-christians-of-egypt/
are not many of those Christian populations under pressure from muslims? many, in fact being killed? not to mention the Syrians and Iraqis.
Mike you haven,t read my earlier comment in which i cited Secondly historic non muslim communities have had existed in muslim countries , it does not matter and other thing that does not matter to them is muslim minorities in west is only decade old phenomenon, apart from spain and eastern europe(where muslims were peacefully shown the door ofcourse) just because they were supposedly ruled by muslim for centuries and ironically remained non muslim majority countries. Stop using your baseless arguments. The point remains Non muslim minoritites have existed with muslims in muslim majority and non majority countries for centuries. I DID NOT CITE IRAQ AND SYRIA ALTHOUGH I SHOULD HAVE. Haven,t you heard of Kurds(majority sunni muslims) protecting christians in Iraq. You would not have. Muslim communities everywhere in west were non existent or made non existent within decades when muslims lost power. Greece, bulgaria, romania and not to forget Bosnian genocide. Muslim minorities in west have always been treated as pests to be eradicated while mosques and churches existed in middle east side by side for centuries. If islamic world was so violent towards minorities why only now they are leaving that place why not centuries before. Nobody asked Spanish, italian, or greek muslims to stay. Edicts of expulsion were passed. Multiculturalism and ALLOWING MUSLIMS TO BECOME citizens is a two decade old phenomenon. Not only muslims faced bias pre 9-11 it waas afterwards also. LONG STORY SHORT YOU WANT MUSLIMS GONE RIGHT I AM OF SAME OPINION BUT NOT THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO BE. I WANT THESE MIGRANT COMMUNITIES TO COME BACK TO THEIR HOMELANDS AND TEACH US WHAT ALL GOOD THEY LEARNT FROM YOU GUYS. IF THEY WANT TO LIVE IN SECULAR NATIONS THEY BETTER MAKE THEIR NATIONS SECULAR. FROM WEST I WANT EDUCATION AND CERTAIN VALUES LIKE DEMOCRACY, SECULARISM WHICH I FIND FITTING FOR A PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY NOT INTERFERENCE IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS OF THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES
I never said I want muslims gone. linda said that. I support freedom of religion. just like I support freedom of speech.
dude, I don’t follow what you are saying? your first two comments you are talking to yourself. I didn’t notice you were the same person as this comment. my bad.
All I want to say is the example of Iraq and Syria is used as justification of backlash against muslims. Nothing false with that statement. A recent survey in america has concluded that 40 percent of americans want muslim to wear special badges so that they can be identified. Tells a lot what will happen to them
yes, there is often a backlash when a minority ethnic or religious group does something against the majority.
funny thing, I was talking to a Malaysia online the other day. she had to go to a sharia court to petition to have islam removed as her religion from her national ID. have you ever seen the video of the british muslim who says that the second ‘rightly guided’ caliphate, omar, made the jews and Christians shave their heads and wear a red ban around their heads. remember: ‘when you meet the jew or the Christian, do not greet them until they greet you, and push them to the narrow side of the road.’
let me ask you this. if some copts in Egypt carried out a 9/11 style attack, what do you think the muslims reaction would be? or jews in iran?
funny thing, Malaysia legally allows conversion as far I heard. Second funny thing most christians there are migrants(Chinese). Coming back to point I support her leaving Islam and would love malaysia stand up for religious rights. I protest her denial
yes, and Malaysia just passed a law saying the Christians can’t use the word allah.
she wasn’t denied. no doubt the Malaysians are more tolerant than the arabs. I just found it funny that they put your religion on your ID. not as bad as a yellow star, but what is the point?
Ofcourse they can,t only terrorists use it. LOL
On rightly guided caliphate read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtiname_of_Muhammad. If its fake then above thing had to be fake. The only time such type of practice took place was in India only for a period of time. Not like the Nazis
you don’t want to link the charter of medina? so good for the monks of Sinai. ‘until the end of the world.’ you should be giving that to your brothers and sisters in the ummah.
so you don’t believe the first four caliphates to be ‘rightly guided’?
Not to mention the ban on building mosques in switzerland and Italy under garb of whatever they believe in. If same ban was imposed by medieval muslim authorities not a single church would have existed in Egypt, lebanon even Israel. You tell me centuries of tolerance and decades of hate(Islamic world) VERSUS centuries of hate and decades of tolerance(Western world). Mike you decide what you want as a nation(USA) would be like. I am afraid american muslims would not be part of that decision unlike indonesian, egyptian, lebanese and malaysian christians ofcourse
there is a ban on building mosques in Switzerland? I thought it was minarets they banned? haven’t heard about Italy banning mosques? if so I’m against that and the minaret ban too. although that seems more architectural. but I’m for architectural freedom as well as freedom of speech and religion.
so you are telling me that throughout the history of islam they have always been tolerant of other religions? that is insane. the church of the holy sepulcher
was destroyed by the muslim ruler of Jerusalem in 1009. there is a 10th century church in turkey that the turks don’t let the Armenians pray in. Saudi Arabia doesn’t allow churches to be built.
I’m not telling you anything about centuries and decades of hate/tolerance. I take an honest accounting of history. it is muslims who view their history through some sort of rose colored glasses. they invade Egypt and everyone became a muslim because they just handed out Koran and everyone was ‘enlightened’. same with spain. lol. the Zoroastrians weren’t driven out of Persia, they just all saw the light and converted under no pressure. please.
I’m not telling you anything about centuries and decades of hate/tolerance. I take an honest accounting of history. it is muslims who view their history through some sort of rose colored glasses. they invade Egypt and everyone DID NOT became a muslim because they just handed out Koran A PROCESS THAT TOOK 400 YEARS and everyone was ‘enlightened’. same with spain. lol. the Zoroastrians(WHICH EXIST NOW TOO) weren’t ALL driven out of Persia(but in 20th century), they just all saw the light and converted under no pressure. please. The same logic can be applied to USA as well. Were not all native americans cleansed from the land. Not only USA but australia and new zealand as well by BOTH SECULARS AND CHRISTIANS. CONTRAPUNTO I take an honest accounting of history. it is WESTERN PEOPLE who view their history through some sort of rose colored glasses. If that is not the case then what moral superiority are you PEOPLE claiming OVER again American muslims. NOT DEVIATING FROM THE TOPIC MORE NO. OF NON MUSLIMS EXIST IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES THEN MUSLIMS IN WESTERN COUNTRIES. You might already know this that 49 percent of Lebanese are christian, 10 percent of Egyptians are christians. And also the way West looks at Islamic civilizations is not completely honest either. Its not a hunch its a fact
yes Zoroastrians do still exist. and where are most of them?
I claim separation of religion and state to be superior to religiously impose law. I claim freedom of speech to be superior to blasphemy laws and I claim freedom of religion and freedom from religion to be superior to what you find in most of the muslim world.
Also freedom from racism, prejudice and hate based on belonging to a certain community. I support secularism too and find it superior I agree
good to hear you are a secularist. most muslims unfortunately aren’t.
Still you were not able to answer why spain was still christian country while reconquista(given 400 years of rule) and countries like serbia and greece were christian dominated when they became independent. Indeed LOL the serbians then took their revenge on bosniaks have you forgot this
I didn’t know you asked me a question. why did the Spanish drive the muslims out. I guess they didn’t like them. the greeks didn’t care much for the ottomans either, I guess. I was watching hennery Louis gates segment called ‘finding your roots’ on cnn. they were doing George Stephanopoulos. he had a distant relative who fought in the 1820 greek revolt against the ottomans. the pointed out that several of his (however many) great-aunts were taken as sex slaves. yes, I recall the breakup of Yugoslavia. your point it that religious people are often violent? I agree. non-religious people are often violent too.
great-aunts were taken as sex slaves seems like pretext Bosnian rape to me. Have you read about Turkish war of independence
I didn’t know you asked me a question. why did the Spanish drive the muslims out. That was not the point the point why were they still christian even after 900 years of rule . If it had been some other true muslims ruling spaniards I hardly could guess the outcome.Have you read about cyprus conflict or rohingya expulsion happening now or megalis idea.great-aunts were taken as sex slaves seems like pretext Bosnian rape to me. Have you read about Turkish war of independence
900 years? you added 200 to the usually wrong 700. how do you even come close to that number? first, the last 250 years of the usually claimed 700 years was the emirate of Granada. nor was Galicia ever conquered. and the visogoth Christians began the Reconquista almost immediately.
if your point is that muslims didn’t slaughter every non-muslim they have ever come across throughout history, you will get no argument from me. but like all conquerors and they have violently conquered much, they sometimes do and sometimes don’t kill for their religion.
here is a present day world renown Islamic scholar: http://islamqa.info/en/43087
Renowned Islamic scholar or renogade scholar. You might as well quote some one else
Yup and not all spain was conqured. Instead most spain and Portugal was conquered. Reconquista spanned many years with final fall of granada in late 1400,s
Read Edict of expulsion of muslims and Jews
post me a link and i’ll read it. I imagine it says muslims and jews are to be expelled from spain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus AND The last Muslim bastion, Granada, fell in 1492. By this time Muslims in Castile numbered half a million. After the fall, “100,000 had died or been enslaved, 200,000 emigrated, and 200,000 remained as the residual population. Many of the Muslim elite, including Muhammad XII, who had been given the area of the Alpujarras mountains as a principality, found life under Christian rule intolerable and passed over into North Africa.”[20] Under the conditions of the Capitulations of 1492, the Muslims in Granada were to be allowed to continue to practice their religion.
Mass forced conversions of Muslims in 1499 led to a revolt that spread to Alpujarras and the mountains of Ronda; after this uprising the capitulations were revoked.[21] In 1502 the Catholic Monarchs decreed the forced conversion of all Muslims living under the rule of the Crown of Castile.,[22] although in the kingdoms of Aragon and Valencia (both now part of Spain) the open practice of Islam was allowed until 1526.[23] The descendants of the Muslims were expelled from Spain in 1609 (see Expulsion of the Moriscos) The last mass prosecution against Moriscos for crypto-Islamic practices occurred in Granada in 1727, with most of those convicted receiving relatively light sentences. From then on, indigenous Islam is considered to have been extinguished in Spain.[24]
right. so where are you getting 900 years. like I said, Granada was the last bastion.
And you might as well quote what do we call Wikiislam or a website of some terror organizations perhaps. http://islamqa.info/en/43087 Renowned scholar my ass.
you don’t like al-munijjad? fine. so what are these 900 years you are talking about?
hey asham,
this guy recommends him:
“Mohamed Sašo Dolinšek 5 months ago
Hello Saso seems your genuine in understanding I suggest you post these questions on some muslim forums to get responses from us for example
ummah.com/forum
or sites where you can ask questions to actual muslim scolars:
islamqa.info/en
askimam.org
problem with these sites takes a while to get response back, but if you search the question on archive probably already there
For your question, it comes down to hasty conclusions from what I have read having two female testimonies is an option given not a requirement and its done to lessen a burden, suggest you do more research before coming to conclusions.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/MyMPN/islam-actually-feminist-religion-5-myths-islam/
Going by your argument, all European immigrants and their descendants should leave America because exterminating the native Americans, stealing their land and killing their culture is against the laws and customs of any decent people.
I wish that twitter (AND YOU) and the internet responded with this much passion at Christians, Jews and Muslims being KILLED in the name of Islam EVERY SINGLE DAY. Where is THAT outrage? All these so-called peaceful Muslims…why are they not speaking out AGAINST Islamist terrorists? NO, they do not. They expel their energy defending and deflecting. There is no excuse for anyone wearing Nazi propaganda. However, that one guy was not indicative of true Americans. Those attacking the bikers have no knowledge or understanding of the 1st and 2nd amendment. No one was hurt. No one was arrested. No property was damaged (which is why THEY were not referred to as thugs). THIS is how you hold a peaceful protest. Their guns on their hips PROVE that the 2nd amendment works. It’s the gun-FREE zones that sadly experience victims. If they had NOT had their LEGAL guns on them? You know some wackjob Islamist would have shown up, just like they did in Texas. And all of you up in arms, because you call the bikers terrorists? NO ONE lost their head, so pull your own heads out of your a**es. THIS is how Americans conduct a peaceful protest. The Islamists are upset, because anyone who disagrees with them? Is gang-raped, loses their head and is set on-fire. So, ENOUGH with the comparisons, because they do not hold water.
People can use their right to free speech to criticizes others who are exercising that same right. It seems that YOU’RE the one who needs to educate yourself on the First Amendment. Criticism does not equal repression.
When the attack on the Charlie Hebdo headquarters happened, there were multitudes of tweets from Muslims around the world with the hashtag #Notin myname. A French Imam even encouraged his congregation to speak out against the attack, saying that to remain silent was to be on on the side of the attackers. Clearly, you missed out on that.
Hitler admired Islam. I can’t stand American “nazis”
“Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers -already, you see,
the world had already fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a
thing Christianity! -then we should in all probability have been
converted to Mohammedanism [Islam], that cult which glorifies the
heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone.
Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity
alone prevented them from doing so.” – Adolf Hitler