By It wasn’t too long ago that I shared with you my absolute love and adoration for Kamala Khan aka Ms. Marvel, the newest and coolest member of the Marvel Comics universe. Upon first reading Ms. Marvel’s comics, which are still making great sales, I knew on some level she’d be the character that changed things for young Muslim comic fans. But — damn! — now our girl is taking things a step further.
She is now kicking Pamela Geller’s ass by taking on the Freedom Defense Initiative’s racist bus campaign. AFDI, notable Muslim-hater Pam-Pam’s brainchild, purchased bus ads in San Francisco, again, to promote Islamophobia and associate Islam with Nazism.
Luckily, the bigotry busters of Bay Area Art Queers Unleashing Power and Street Cred were on it. By enlisting the help of our Muslim super-heroine and “love-bombing” the hate ads with hearts and heroes, they used the power of art to combat the forces of evil! This counter attack could not be more genius if it tried. To quote Beyonce, “Flawless!”
Not only is this response smart and culturally relevant, it’s peaceful. It shows that the Muslim community is not going to fall into the traps of hate speech. You can hate us and derail us all you want, but that doesn’t mean we need to stoop to such a level. I tip my hijab to this badass team of bigotry busters.
I’m absolutely ready to live in a world where a comic book character will represent Muslims rather than ISIS. Sign me up.
Images by Street Cred.
Hey MuslimGirl, why does your religion, Islam, treat women as the slaves of men? Why does your religion denigrate and insult all unbelievers and threaten them with subjugation and death? Why does Islam seek to to wipe out all other religions?
If you want to see bigotry, try cracking open a Koran and listening to Imams preach hate towards non-Muslims.
We are not the intolerant haters. It is your 7th century desert warlord ideology that threatens everyone who is not a Muslim. People all over the world are sick and tired of Muslims persecuting, raping, torturing and massacring others because of their religious teachings.
You are on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of morality. Wake up.
Yeah, because all Muslims preach hate, rape, and violence. No exceptions! Perhaps you’ve forgotten about the Crusades? The fundamentalist Christians in our own country who perpetuate hate and intolerance? If America were as destitute as many of the regions that Muslims inhabit, we’d be blowing shit up and causing chaos, too. As always, want a war-zone? Add poverty.
Jager,
Read again what I wrote–it is the IDEOLOGY that promotes hatred of unbelievers and which justifies rape, torture and mass murder in the pursuit of forcing Islam on everyone else. Not all Muslims know enough about their religion to understand this. It goes without saying that there are plenty of fine, wonderful Muslims, but they are fine and wonderful because they are only Muslims in name and do not follow the violent and hateful teachings of their religion.
Your effort at moral equivalency is fallacious. It can be well argued that the Crusades were a response to the Muslim war of conquest on the West. Regardless, the Crusades were centuries ago and today Christians are not rampaging across the world persecuting, raping, torturing and killing people as Muslims are. Clearly these Muslim rampages are based directly on Islamic teachings.
In addition to exhorting its followers to mass murder unbelievers and insufficiently devote Muslims, Islam promotes antisemitism, pedophilia, wife-beating, female genital mutilation, slavery, “honor” killings of women and girls, and the execution of homosexuals and apostates. This ideology has no place in the civilized world and thankfully people are finely realizing this.
For the sake of all of humanity, MUSLIMS as well as everyone else, this ideology needs to be exposed, de-legitimized and relegated to the ash heap of history.
Here, here!
Jager,
If you don’t believe what I have written about Islam, read this web page created by former Muslims which uses Islamic religious texts to detail how Islam promotes hatred and violence:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/call_to_muslims.htm
If you care about freedom and human rights, you must speak out against this ideology. The fact is that Islam cannot withstand critical examination and open discussion. That is why Muhammad had his critics killed. And it is why the Muslim terrorist murderers slaughtered the Charles Hebdo cartoonists. Instead of trying to squelch criticism of Islam, as the Street Cred brownshirts did, we need to educate everyone about the fact that Islam is a hateful, cruel violent supremacist ideology.
The Bible isn’t great on human rights either, nor on the respect of other religions. By your logic a Christian who is against slavery isn’t a “real” Christian either.
Lynn,
I agree that there is plenty of horrible stuff in the Bible, but Christians are not instructed by their religion to subjugate and kill everyone they cannot convert to Christianity, as Islam instructs Muslims. Every day, all over the world, Muslims are using fear, terror and violence to convert, subjugate or kill unbelievers. They are following the teachings and the behavior of Mohammed, a pedophile, rapist, slave-holder, torturer and mass-murderer.
Again, it would be best for EVERYONE-and Muslims especially-if we could completely de-legitimize Islam and discard it. It has no place among civilized people.
I’d like to de-legitimise Christianity as well. It’s full of hateful garbage (hey, let’s stone a woman for any reason whatsoever. Personally, I think stoning is primitive, despicable methodology, but the Christian God is all for it, as it says in the book he ‘wrote’). William, change comes from the inside, rarely from without. Destroy the hateful religion of Christianity, show Muslims how it’s done. Maybe they can follow your morally pure lead. Christians must destroy Christianity first before they can try to destroy Islam.
Bottom line, if you believe in God, God doesn’t care about these petty squabbles (“my religion is less despicable than those other people incredibly similar to me, so get them!”) Learn to live with them, or change your self, or keep your mouth shut. If Muslims are ‘wrong’, you are merely marginally less wrong, if that. Christianity is a mere matter of degrees different from Islam. You are a hypocrite to tell those others with a fantasy that their God is less God than your God. I would argue that you aren’t civilised with your attitude about a great branch of humanity.
Def,
I am not a Christian. I think that ideologies that espouse beliefs in gods and an afterlife are false.
>>I would argue that you aren’t civilised with your attitude about a great branch of humanity.
Islam was created in the 7th century by a pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass-murderer. Throughout the last 14 centuries Muslims has massacred tens of millions or more likely several hundred millions people because of the ideology.
Islam is a false ideology, and it is a violent and cruel ideology.
Civilized people must criticize this ideology and hold it to account for its inspiration of cruelty, violence and murder.
Wake up.
Who cares what the roots of it were? Let them keep their fantasy. You are not going to institute any change by telling a billion people that their prophet is a pedophile. You are just going to insult them and make them ignore you. It is different than Christianity by a matter of degrees. Abolish all religion if you must (it will simply offend even more), since they are all false ideologies. But pointing a finger at ‘them’ and saying they must change is not the way to do it.
Wake up to how humans work. Your posts here only polarise, they make no positive difference. And they harass a writer who is in all likelihood a moderate, sensible person.
Def,
>>Let them keep their fantasy.
Not as long as their fantasy is to make the entire bow to Islam. If Islam accepted the existence of other belief systems-benign belief systems, and if it didn’t support slavery and the treatment of women as the possessions of men, along with a lot of other unsavory things, then there wouldn’t be a problem. But Islam is inherently supremacist and totalitarian. With Islam, it is Mohammad’s way or the highway.
Quran (9:29)
– “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge
the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they
pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Unless Islam undergoes a massive reformation to the point of becoming entirely unrecognizable, it will ALWAYS put Muslims in conflict with everyone else in the world. THAT is the problem.
>>You are not going to institute any change by telling a billion people
that their prophet is a pedophile. You are just going to insult them
and make them ignore you.
It starts with one person at a time. It is becoming abundantly clear that the unwillingness of unbelievers to speak out against Islamic supremacism is only encouraging and enabling it. Part of the problem, I believe, is that too many non-Muslims do not understand what Islam is, so they defend it and apologize for it in the name of political correctness and multiculturalism. However, once people understand how cruel and demented the ideology is, they will be willing to do things like elect politicians who will stop the importation of massive numbers of Muslims into Western countries, and they will stop allowing Muslims to pose as the victims of “Islamophobia” after each and every massive Islamic terrorist atrocity. The first step is to educate people. I firmly believe that if most people in the world fully and truly understood what Islam is, then Islam-the ideology-would face the worldwide outrage and disgust of billions of people and would have to change or be discarded for good. I think that this is actually starting to happen as it is becoming clear to more and more people that Islam’s primary contribution to the world is suffering and violence
>>Abolish all religion if you must (it will simply offend even more), since they are all false ideologies.
People are free to believe what they want, but if they are being taught that their goal in life is to make the entire world Islamic through every means possible including violence and terror, then these people need to be told, in no uncertain terms, that their beliefs are sick, cruel and evil and that they will be opposed by everyone else on the planet with every means possible.
>>But pointing a finger at ‘them’ and saying they must change is not the way to do it.
Give me your alternative. The world is awash in Muslim persecution of and violence against unbelievers and Muslims who don’t toe the party line. Everything points to this situation getting worse and worse while world leaders continue put on a their smiley faces and sheepishly pretend that Islam is a “religion of peace”. Pretending the problem does not exist is not making it go away: it is making it worse.
We have to be able to identify the enemy if we are ever going to defeat it. And in this case the enemy is…..Islam itself. The ideology. As I noted before, there are plenty of fine, wonderful Muslims. But their religion has to be massively reformed or thrown away, for good–for their sake and for everyone else’s sake. And the first step is to identify what is wrong with Islam and to make people everywhere fully aware of what is wrong with it.
>>Wake up to how humans work. Your posts here only polarise, they make no
positive difference. And they harass a writer who is in all likelihood
a moderate, sensible person.
if the person who created this website is truly a good person who believes in freedom, human rights and women’s rights especially, she would agree with me that Islam has to be reformed or discarded. If she doesn’t agree with me, then she either doesn’t know enough about Islam or has a false understanding of Islam or she does understand what Islam is and she therefor supports cruelty, persecution and violence against innocents. This might seem harsh, but it is the only reasonable explanation I can come to in light of everything I know.
Need to proofread more:
Not as long as their fantasy is to make the entire world bow to Islam.
Everything points to this situation getting worse and worse while world
leaders continue put on their smiley faces and sheepishly pretend that
Islam is a “religion of peace”.
Ask a Muslim about these things and he/she deflects saying something like “you wouldn’t understand”. Well, sometimes I think that they don’t either.
Really? Cite one case where a Christian woman, or any woman has been stoned in the name of Christianity? Stoning is is an Islamic measure. I can go on the internet and find numerous cases, and even find in Sharia Law where that’s called for under Islam. You are an ignorant fool who has a chip on their shoulder, an unreasonable one at that. There’s more hate in the Quran, the hate that drove Mohammed to conquer and kill hundreds of thousands of Christians and Jews to purge the Middle East in conversion of the world to Islam, but of course, you are ignorant to this, are you not? And ISIS is merely carrying on the work of Mohammed. ISIS is conducting jihad, their god’s will, as written in the Quran as a commandment. ISIS is a Sunni orthodox Islam, killing the infidels, Christians and Shiites whom they consider apostates. Def has a warped, misguided childlike mind. Christianity is not out to change the world by use of terrorism and outright war, but Muslims and Islam is.
Whatever buddy. The only people spreading hate, on this page at least, are the anti-Muslims.
Learn to live with them, or change yourself, or keep your mouth shut.
Well, stupid, Muslims aren’t going to live and let live, they’re going to come after you and then you can tell them off too. Does your mommy know that you are using her computer?
Yes, grownups talk like you do: villainizing people they’ve never met, or calling them stupid. It’s the stupid babies who try to act like adults; lead by example.
Way more Muslims are killed by Americans than vice versa. Way more, before and after 9-11. Way more Americans are killed by Americans than will ever be killed by Muslims. All the same, I don’t have much worry about Americans coming to get me.
You live in your bubble. Do what you need to. And don’t stone anyone, even if God commands you to.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/stoning_to_death
Yes, Jager2, I hear that there are original crusaders still alive today, and they’ve invaded Saudi Arabia wearing tin foil hats. The Crusades have been over for many, many, many centuries, and there’s nothing like it today. If you want to attack the Italians for the excesses of Rome, be my guest.
Otto Skorzeny was the Nazi officer and Hitler bodyguard who taught Egyptian terrorist Yasser Arafat. Arafat was responsible for the most murders of Jewish civilians after Hitler. Skorzeny was sent to Egypt by Nazi War criminal Haj-Amin Husseini, the ‘Palestinian’ Arab Mufti. If you wish to remain a child instead of learning about history, in order to prevent it from re-occurring, that is your prerogative. The rest of us will continue to teach others about the evils of the past to prevent them from happening again.
Miss Shannon, why do you persist in speaking of sentiment against Islam as “racist”? Islam is a religion and a political system. Muslims are the first to brag about how many different races are part of Islam so why do you persist in calling Islam a race? Next, I can think of a whole lot of folks who won’t care overmuch for this comic book character. First, it’s an image of a person – strictly forbidden. Second, she’s dressed in a fashion that would get her stoned in an awful lot of Muslim countries: face and legs and arms exposed, hair uncovered – what a little tart. Finally, do you really want to be represented by a comic book character? That’s not exactly mature.
As a fan of the Ms. Marvel comics, yes I’d love to be represented by a young, funny, smart, super powered, Muslim heroine. And as for those who you believe wouldn’t be fans of hers, it’s okay. Comic books aren’t for everyone.
Google search the terms Africans, Muslims, racism and in turn, Yemen, Quatar, Indonesia, Malaysia, Libya, and any other Muslim majority country. You’ll find that all Muslim countries treat black people like dirt. Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia are treated badly too. The idea that Muslims are better than the rest of the world when it comes to the brotherhood of mankind is a myth. In fact the Muslim world is backward when it comes to matters of race, being far worse than the West.
Bay Area Art Queers…wow…no thanks…
yeah, don’t let them fags do anything in the ‘name of islam’. they are supposed to be put to death, like the people of lut. kill a fag for allah.
I see hasbara has hijacked this thread with their plenthora of Quranic verses taken out of context.
Really? Google search the terms Africans, Muslims, racism and in turn, Yemen, Quatar, Indonesia, Malaysia, Libya, and any other Muslim majority country. You’ll find that all Muslim countries treat black people like dirt. Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia are treated badly too. Look into how Indians who are not Muslim are treated in Pakistan. The idea that Muslims are better than the rest of the world when it comes to the brotherhood of mankind is a myth. In fact the Muslim world is backward when it comes to matters of race, being far worse than the West. The West have constitutions and laws giving equal protection to people of all races and religions. If they have such laws in Muslim countries, they are discriminatory or ignored. Muslims who live in the US and the West are lucky to live in such countries, as they have a lot of other protections not given to Muslims in Muslim majority countries. Muslims insult blacks in this country by equating their issues withe African Americans. Much of Muslims problems in the US are of their own making. All over the world, everywhere Muslims go and are minorities, they start trouble, France, Sweden, Germany and the US. Why do they migrate from the Middle East and expect the majority cultures in the West adapt to their presence. Try migrating to the Middle East and demand accommodation for Christianity. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,and the Muslim countries treat people of other religions like trash. Muslims are hypocrites in their demands, probably due to the arrogance of their religion, which views unbelievers as inferiors.
I don’t know if you are black or white, Christian or Jew or Atheist, etc. but lets say if I use something similar to what you wrote and replace the religion Islam with something else thus essentially creating a diatribe bashing the people of a certain color or religion with everything negative that exists for some particular people from that group – my diatribe would be a load of stereotypical broad-brushed horse manure. That’s what your paragraph is.
Ok. Do so. I challenge you to find a religion that’s spread at the point of the sword, as Islam has. You can’t. Jihad, the defeat of the infidel by violence is the duty of all Muslims. Mohammed set the example and everyone follows. Some choose to do so at this time, but others would not be violating the Quran if they did so in the future. This is why Islam has been unable to get along with other religions, and why Sunnis and Shiites have no problem with fighting each other and still claim that they’re Muslims. Religion of peace? Not since Islam was invented by Mohammed when he needed a moral excuse for pillaging caravans in the 7th century.
Typical recycled garbage about Islam being spread with a sword – if that were the case, the three major battles would have been fought in Makkah and not Madina. Digest that and try to understand that although I am sure you do not know or understand the context of that. Plus Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe and North America and everywhere else. Who is spreading Islam by the sword now?
Yes, spreading like hate and bigotry. Evil is like that.
That is what you are doing against Muslims by stereotyping everyone.
When people join an organization called the Ku Klux Klan, which has its tenets of bigotry and intolerance, I will judge them on what I perceive is their intent. When people join a religion which has the clearly stated objectives of war of jihad against people they object to, including homosexuals, Christians and Jews, and peoples of other religions, I will judge them on the basis of the stereotype of their common beliefs found in their ideological charter. In this case, that charter is the bigotry of the Quran. Yes, I will judge Muslims if their beliefs are of intolerance and hate for their unbeliever, the infidel. I also judge such groups on their behaviours, and have been justified by Islams inability to get along with others in many, many parts of the world, including Sweden, France, the U.S., Great Britain et al. And when I see how Muslims of the Muslim majority states treat Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists, basically like inferiors and with disdain, prejudice and injustice, imposing the vile Sharia Law on everyone, yes, I will judge Islam accordingly. I suggest you actually study how Muslims treat people other their their own, when Islam is a majority religion, rather than judging me. The Islam that the Muslims like you to see is not actually the Islam that exists in most of the world.
Where do I even start to address this? Okay, give me the Quranic injunction of jihad against Jews and Christians. The verse number please.
Start with Mohammed butchery of the Christians and Jews in the Middle East and Spain and the rest of Europe. That’s not disputable, but documented in every history of Islam that isn’t published using Saudi money. Then read Spencer’s Commentaries on the Quran, which refers top Pickthall’s translation of the Quran. Spencer’s Commentaries can be found here.. https://archive.org/stream/RobertSpencersQuranCommentaries/BloggingTheQuran#page/n21/mode/2up
Pickthall’s Quran is here. https://archive.org/stream/RobertSpencersQuranCommentaries/Quran-pickthal#page/n0/mode/2up
Spencer does a great job of examining the Quran and its obvious hostility to Jews and Christians and others.
Quranic injunction of jihad against Jews and Christians? Verse Number Please.
Verse 193, as discussed in Spencer’s commentary on page 15.
I am sure you don’t even know how to read or reference the Quran even though you point that Islam commands “jihad against Jews and Christians”. Verse 193 by itself means nothing, Nada, Zilch. I guess Robert Spencer, accredited Islamophobe of the USA, has poisoned your mind so much that you take his word for it and never have read the Quran. Which means you know nothing about Quran or Islam and parrot everything Spencer says.
I repeat myself. Which Surah and Verse number in the Quran, Muslims’ Holy Book, demands jihad against Jews and Christians?
I would wage he means 2:193. a very poor ‘cherry-pick’ indeed.
that should be pretty easy for you to figure out. at a quick glance only 2 -3 – 7 -26 have 193 verses.
so maybe you could explain the apostate wars to us.
The Cow.
Thanks. AJ isn’t smart enough to do such a process of elimination.
Could you explain this what it means george … Wonderful sights were to be seen. Some of our men (and this was more merciful) cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one’s way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the Temple of Solomon, a place where religious services are normally chanted … in the temple and the porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed it was a just and splendid judgement of God that this place should be filled with the blood of unbelievers since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies
Raymond D’Aguilers in Historia Francorum qui ceperunt Iherusalem
Sounds like Islam today, in Iraq and Syria. Could be islam under your prophet, Mohammed, but certainly not under Christianity and Judaism today. Not since before Christ have the Jewish people acted in such a way. Too bad Islam never changes.
Well i quoted a crusader. I am not sure about Israel but yes most of christian countries ARE NOT CHRISTIAN ANYMORE. SO YOUR POINT IS INVALID. I will not waste my time in YOUR INSECURITIES AS WE ALREADY KNOW THE PEACEFUL HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY AND EUROPEAN IMPERIALISM.Many Countries all around the globe celebrate their Independence FROM THE WEST. speaks a lot about YOUR HISTORY.
Yes, every time we point the fact that Islam has without interruption caused chaos and destruction to the peoples of other religions, you go back to the Crusades. What are the Holy Lands were once Christian and Jewish. islam’s bandit, Mohammed raped and pillaged his way through the land, using his god’s name. That’s a fact. Muslim crusades precipitated the Christian Crusades and Muslims have been converting by the sword since the 7th Century. Islam is evil.
I have nothing but contempt for your bandit Mohammed, who invented his religion to justify his evil. Your prophet goes through a maze of twists and turns in his prophesy, contradicting this and that at his own convenience to satisfy a moment in time. Mohammed started as a bandit, pillaged the land in the name of his god, all to his own personal gain.
read this on Islam and slavery https://www.google.co.in/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=slave+dynasty
My Islamophobia comes from Mohammed’s conversions by the sword, as sanctioned by the Quran. Mohammed coerced millions to convert, or to be enslaved or die. Nothing has changed from when the Quran made it mandatory that ALL Muslims conduct jihad against the unbeliever. I noticed that you never even made an argument, never mentioned what verse 193 says. I assume that you have no case. Nada, zilch are not rational response for rational people. The world has seen the spawn of Mohammed’s orthodox Islam and it’s ISIS. I demand that you declare Mohammed’s forced conversions as morally wrong. You won’t because that would be renouncing your faith. That’s the trap Muslims have set for themselves. When the Quran says strike the unbeliever and apostate in the neck, it means it, just as Mohammed didd to millions during the 7th century and beyond. Again, nada and zilch are not responses. The only reason why some Muslims do not conduct war against the unbelievers is because they choose not to at this time. Any Muslim can do so and be consonant with the Quran. You Muslims have painted yourselves into a corner, one of hate, and you can’t escape it. Some of us see right through it.
I mean The Cow, verse 193.
The Cow. Verse 193.
After a day of searching the verse that tells Muslims to conduct jihad against Jews and Christians (and not finding), you finally reproduce 2:193 which is a war-time verse specially pointing towards the Makkans and the tribe of Quraish that had attacked the new Muslims in Madinah. The verse is not written for Jews or Christians since Makkans were neither Jews or Christians – they were idolaters. In fact, I wrote an article on this since Verse 2:193 seems to be a favorite verse to be used against Islam by Islam-haters like you.
https://aayjay.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/slay-them-wherever-you-find-them/
You conveniently fail to mention a) the context of the verse [a war-time verse with clear instructions to cease if the enemy stops fighting] and b) the verse does not refer to Jews or Christians. Here is another read:
http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/quran_misquote_part_2.php
I suggest that you not leave your day-job if you do this as a hobby. If this is your paid job (as is the case of mike3), your boss needs to fire you or you should respectfully retire.
When people join an organization called the Ku Klux Klan, which has its tenets of bigotry and intolerance, I will judge them on what I perceive is their intent. When people join a religion which has the clearly stated objectives of war of jihad against people they object to, including homosexuals, Christians and Jews, and peoples of other religions, I will judge them on the basis of the stereotype of their common beliefs found in their ideological charter. In this case, that charter is the bigotry of the Quran. Yes, I will judge Muslims if their beliefs are of intolerance and hate for their unbeliever, the infidel. I also judge such groups on their behaviours, and have been justified by Islams inability to get along with others in many, many parts of the world, including Sweden, France, the U.S., Great Britain et al. And when I see how Muslims of the Muslim majority states treat Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists, basically like inferiors and with disdain, prejudice and injustice, imposing the vile Sharia Law on everyone, yes, I will judge Islam accordingly. I suggest you actually study how Muslims treat people other their their own, when Islam is a majority religion, rather than judging me. The Islam that the Muslims like you to believe to be one of peace is not actually the Islam that exists in most of the world. The venom of Islam is in the veins of even little girls, who get a warped view of the world from their parents, like Latifah, aka, Muslimgirl. Such people like to think of themselves as nice, but their minds are warped with the hatred ingrained by their religion. Such people need to engage in introspection and a careful questioning of why their religion is so feared and disliked outside the Muslim world.
why would the first three battles, badr, uhud and trench, be in mecca and not medina?
he had no one to fight with him in mecca. he had to flee after his uncle died and he lost his protection.
and what does your high birth rate have to do with anything?
It suggests who the aggressor was. If it were the new Muslims, they wouldn’t be fighting around Madinah. In all the three battles, the aggressor were the Makkans. It’s not just the high birth rate, it’s the conversions as well.
oh I see now. I thought you were saying that he would have fought when he was in mecca, before going to medina.
but he did conquer mecca later. it wasn’t much of a fight, by then he had 10,000 men and the pagans pretty much let him in. I think Khalid [the sword of allah] al-walid (is that his last name) got into a little skirmish in his section. but then Muhammad order 360 pagan idols destroyed. that’s not very tolerant of him?
Uhh… Weren’t we arguing if Islam spread by the sword? Who is attacking who and who is fighting back? Makkans were the aggressors and the new Muslims of Madinah fought back. So it was the sword used against the Muslims.
well actually in the battle of badr, the muslims attacked the pagan caravan. the set out to attack the caravan, that is why it is the battle of badr and not the battle of medina. to your very logic in your earlier post.
but know I was talking about when the muslim went back to mecca to conquer it. why did he destroy their pagan idols? not very tolerant of someone’s religion, if you destroy their idols.
as for islam being spread by the sword. I posted the link with the ‘proofs’ from the Saudi scholar but you refused to open it. i’ll try again.
http://islamqa.info/en/43087
“Islam spread by means of proof and evidence to those who listened to the message and responded to it, and it spread by means of force and the sword to those who were stubborn and arrogant, until they were overwhelmed and became no longer stubborn, and submitted to that reality.”
You and your friend have no response to the fact that the three battles of Islam were initiated by the Makkans around Madinah and It were the Muslims that fought back. Badr was the battle in which God sent Angels (reference in Quran) since Muslims were outnumbered. To this day, it is the same trend. Non-believers invading Muslim countries and Muslims fighting back. And that reminds he that I need to get back to my day to teach my children whereas for you, for which all this 24/7 posting lies about Islam is a day job (paid shill) since any other man would need to head out and work.
yes I know 8:12 quite well. “lo thy sustainer said unto the angles, I shall cast terror into their hearts, strike off their necks and cut off every fingertip” something like that? lest see how I did?
“(8:12) Lo! Thy Sustainer inspired the angels [to convey this His message to the believers]: “I am with you !”13
[And He commanded the angels:] “And give firmness unto those who have attained to faith [with these words from Me]:14 ‘I shall cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks, [O believers,] and strike off every one of their finger-tips!”15”
whoa lots of footnotes. I know Muhammad Asad disagrees with your belief in angelic intervention. looks like Razi disagrees with you too.
13 The phrase “I am with you” is addressed (through the angels) to the believers – “for, the
purport of these words was the removal of fear, since it was the Muslims, and not the angels,
who feared the deniers of the truth” (Razi).
14 The following is, again, addressed to the believers (Razi). Verse 10 of this surah makes it
clear that the aid of the angels was purely spiritual in nature; and there is no evidence
anywhere in the Qur’an that they did, or were meant to, participate in the battle in a physical
sense. In his commentary on the above verse, Razi stresses this point repeatedly; among modern
commentators, Rashid Rida emphatically rejects the legendary notion that angels actually fought
in this or any other of the Prophet’s battles (see Manar IX, 612 ff.). It is mainly on the
basis of Razi’s interpretation of this passage that I have interpolated, in several places,
explanatory clauses between brackets.
15. I.e., “destroy them utterly”.
do you what the preceding verses and the footnotes? I can give you the link.
Really? What was the provocation for invading Spain and Europe? And if your response justifies Islam’s conquests of those areas, then you can understand why Christians conducted their crusades, after Mohammed’s subjugation of the Jewish/Christian majority Holy Land. Mohammed was a thief, a raider of caravans who used the pretense of religion for personal gain.
the Islamic State.
that was an easy one. the Saudis new law equating atheism to terrorist isn’t much better. how about boko haram? JI in Indonesia. you do know that there have been Islamic insurgencies recently in Thailand and the southern Philippines. Bangladesh is constantly under islamist attacks. they rioted when the ‘secular’ government tried to give women equal inheritance rights under the law a couple of years ago. the Baha’i are considered person non grata in iran. the Zoroastrians are all but gone form Persia. they don’t necessary behead people, but they often make live miserable for them till they either leave or convert. the turks would let the Armenians but a cross back on a 10th century church for years. how many Coptic churches were destroyed in Egypt last year? the Malaysians won’t allow the christains to use the word allah for some reason and ordinance XX in Pakistan won’t allow the ahmadis to call themselves muslim.
Does not ISIS claim to be acting in the name of Islam? They apparently interpret the Quran in the same way as Spencer, giving credibility to the interpretations I have referred to. Should I believe your interpretation, which is merely jawboning, or should I believe the deeds of those who are committing mayhem, ISIS. Your credibility is quite little when judged in the light of jihad in Iraq and Syria. Spencer’s commentaries were written before ISIS crusades, and practically precognitive. ISIS is just acting out a 7th century mass murder’s inclinations.
I am not sure if you are a person out there to learn or to just deceive? If its the former, I want to continue this conversation. If the latter which mike3 does whose full-fledged mission is to distort Islam, I wish to not continue this conversation further. This is my down time from my children. I wish to battle the non-truths about Islam but only with people that wish to learn and not pre-judge. When you have already made up your mind, why waste time with you? Best, AJ
I know that losing an argument is depressing, but chin up, carry on.
The nerve of you to not deliver what you preached and then have no shame. Oh well it’s the latter I choose. You are a deceiver, don’t bother me further with your BS and lies.
the Christians and Jews are polytheists according to the Koran.
still no answer on why Muhammad destroyed 360 pagan idols if islalm is a tolerant religion.
Has now the goalpost moved from if Quran asks Muslims to conduct jihad against Jews and Christians to whether Islam allows idols to be placed in a mosque? Well, keep guessing the answer. For liars like you and George, the truth doesn’t matter anyway.
you seem to be conflating what George and I have been saying. I don’t quote 2:193 or 8:12 or 9:5. I know the context. and sure you can argue that the first 3 battle were defensive. but if George wants to make the streach to find a verse that fits your ‘goalpost’ – ‘Quran asks Muslims to conduct jihad against Jews and Christians’ – one could say read the 9th surah through the 35 verse. 9:5 famously says to kill polytheist and 9:30 says ‘the jews say ezra is the son of god, the Christians say the Christ is the son of god…”
and of course there is the famous hadith that says: “we asked the prophet about the killing of the women and children of the polytheist during night raids and he said, ‘they are of them.’
but my question has been the same since the beginning. how do you claim religious tolerance when your ‘prophet’ destroys other religions’ idols, while reportedly say, “truth has prevailed falsehood” – something like that?
and you asked “Who is spreading Islam by the sword now?” so I answered yet you seem willing to ignore ISIL and Boko Haram and the many other examples I gave. hell, we see ISIL following the example of Muhammad as they smash statues form antiquity, the winged bull idols of an Assyrian god of protection. as we saw the Taliban (another group spreading islam by the sword today) with 5,000 year-old buddhas.
So let’s see here. You and your foolish intern-in-training at Hasbara, George, find nothing in Quran to tell Muslims to wage jihad against the Jews and Christians so you start classifying Jews and Christians as “polytheists” and try to see if you find anything else.
First of all, your attempt to classify Jews and Christians as polytheists is an EPIC FAIL. See 2:105:
Neither those who disbelieve from the People of the Scripture nor the polytheists wish that any good should be sent down to you from your Lord. But Allah selects for His mercy whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.
Did you, someone professing to be a master in Quran, notice that People of the Scripture is mentioned separately from polytheists. Let’s look at another one, the famous 5:82, that you guys at Hasbara keep on hiding:
You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, “We are Christians.” That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.
Again notice, that polytheists (musrikeen – those who associate others with Allah) is mentioned separately than Jews or Christians. Want more? Accepting defeat yet?
I am sure now that you will change the goalpost to say that , “Well, Islam doesn’t tell to kill Jews and Christians, but it does the polytheists (mushrikeen). Let’s look up at that claim. I already have established (and you have accepted, temporarily unless you get a chance to lie again) that 2:193 pertains to killing the aggressor Makkans and only in self-defense. So you come back with 9:5 which refers to the peace treaty between the believers and the pagans being broken and where God tells Muslims to abstain from fighting back for 4 sacred consecutive months. I am sure you don’t want 9:4 mentioned:
Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
or 9:6
And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
So basically, God is telling the believers to a) not fight the polytheists that have not broken the pact and b)to not harm those that seek protection.
So Mikey, I want to ask you.
1) Why are you guys so deceptive? Why do you cherry pick verses about Muslims fighting back in self-defense, not provide contexts and then let the reader assume that it’s an open-call battle to fight all Jews, Christians or polytheists?
2) Why do deceptively conflate terms used for Jews, Christians and polytheists in the Quran when the Quran is very specific about all three?
Why so deceptive?
And now before you repeat the 360 idols in the Kaaba thing, Kaaba was initiated by Adam and built by Ibrahim. This is what Quran says about Ibrahim (3:67):
Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists.
Kaaba was, is and always will be INSHA’ALLAH the place of worship of ONE God. It were the Makkans that forcibly filled Kaaba with idols. Muhammad (pbuh) only removed them at the conquest of Makkah and he didn’t hurt any polytheist. If you tomorrow fill my mosque, with idols, I assure you I will destroy Insha’Allah each and every one of him. However, you do whatever at your own temple and not my place, I am fine with it.
Now with your last mantra of all mushroom-variety terrorists groups operating supposedly under the injunctions of Quran, if a) there is no injunction in the Quran to wage jihad against Jews, Christians and polytheists and b) the only verses that exist are for war-time in 7th century Arabia where Muslims were attacked by pagans and Muslims were asked to fight in self-defense, then who are these terrorists following? Certainly not Allah.
Now, I would like you and George to recede with their tails between their legs, bow their heads in shame and permanently SHUT UP.
first let me try to straighten you out again, I don’t work for hasbara and I don’t know George. but keep lying everyday. not sure what the penalty is for that in your mythology, but it is minus one qirat for having a dog in the house, so one would think it is more than that. you don’t want to get tortured in the grave.
that is quite the dissertation, let’s take it in chapters. my memory isn’t what it used to be.
so what is shirk? describing divinity to aught but god, right? so, the Trinitarian Christians who deify jesus are committing shirk, right?
9:30 Sahih International
The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah “; and the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah .” That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?
“may allah destroy them” sounds down right loving.
I never said the Koran say to wage jihad with Christians and jews. the book is not that well written. it is not clear and is like the bible, full of self contradictions.
again I know the context of 9:5. Muhammad tried to do the lesser pilgrimage during one of the 4 sacred months . so he was not expecting to be confronted because the pagans aren’t supposed to fight during those months, but he was stopped.
so you are saying deifying jesus is not a form of polytheism? Christians don’t die in a state of shirk?
So now you have shifted your goalpost from if Quran asks Muslims to conduct jihad against Jews, Christians and/or Polytheists to how Allah will treat them? However Allah treats them, its not an injunction to Muslims to fight them. I am sure your brain cells comprehend that.
so you don’t want to answer those questions.
I already have. You continue to create new goal posts. When I refute your stupid nonsense on these, you will move to another one. Stop addressing me any further since I do not like to have conversations with deceptive individuals.
so if I ‘create[d] new goal posts’, how could you have ‘already’ answered them??????
well if you made the goal, then isn’t reasonable to create a new goal.
you should always strive for a new goal, right?
“So basically, God is telling the believers to a) not fight the polytheists that have not broken the pact and b)to not harm those that seek protection.” ok. so you say that islam was not spread by the sword. so when the caliphate omar invaded eqypt, was that because the copts broke a treaty with them? or because they didn’t seek their protection and didn’t have a treaty with them? when muslims raided into Christian spain, that was alright because they had no treaty with them?
see the Koran doesn’t say, “ATTACK THE CHRISTIANS, ATTACK THE JEWS, ATTACK THE POLYTHEIST.” it allows for attacking anyone who doesn’t have a treaty with you.
and no, I’ve never claimed to be a master of the Koran, that is why I rely on scholars such as ibn nuhaas and al-munajjid (a fellow Saudi). when they tell me god wants to bring people to islam through humiliation and taxation, I tend to believe them. and look at the history. I mean the real history not the fairly tail that islam just spread because everyone who has ever heard about it just fell in love with it.
1) again you are conflating me with George. I posted a book of jihad that gives context and explanations as to when (when you have no treaty with disbelievers) and why (so the word of allah will prevail) muslims are to wage jihad. and for defensive purposes and then the ever ambiguous, ‘fight oppression’.
2) I don’t see it as clear, but fine. I will cede you the point that the Christians and jews aren’t polytheists.
so let me ask you two questions:
1) after a battle can the non-muslim defeated be enslaved and taken as war booty?
2) can the women be sold as sex-slaves?
“Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists”
A) ok. so everyone who is not a muslim is a liar?
“Kaaba was, is and always will be INSHA’ALLAH the place of worship of ONE God.”
B)yet the meccans took it for how long?
“It were the Makkans that forcibly filled Kaaba with idols.”
C) when did they FORCIBLY do this?
“Muhammad (pbuh) only removed them”
D) I thought he destroyed them? is that not true?
“at the conquest of Makkah and he didn’t hurt any polytheist. If you tomorrow fill my mosque, with idols, I assure you I will destroy Insha’Allah each and every one of him.”
E) sounds about right.
You are babbling right now.
so no answers to those questions. that I can understand. I don’t know the history of the kaaba either. I know y’all operate on some fairy tail about adam building it and Abraham re-building it. so what happened between those two. and after Abraham died. I would think y’all would have Ishmael taking it over?
a) they injunction is to wage war on the oppressor. they view their jihad as justified. also, the Koran says to kill those who spread corruption, 5:32 and 33. again another poorly written part of the Koran.
b) why record the battles in the Koran if they are not meant to guide muslims through all time. to say it was 7th century Arabia is meaningless. these people view the situation are applicable to today. this is why taking ‘guidance’ from ancient books leads to these type things. remember what Obama said, ‘remember the crusades’.
you said: “Again notice, that polytheists (musrikeen – those who associate others with Allah) is mentioned separately than Jews or Christians. Want more? Accepting defeat yet?”
a world renown scholar says:
http://islamqa.info/en/67626
““they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”
[al-Tawbah 9:31]
So they are all described as mushrikeen, because the Jews said that ‘Uzayr is the son of God and the Christians said that the Messiah is the son of God; and because they took their priests and rabbis as lords instead of Allaah. All of this is the worst form of shirk. And there are many similar verses. End quote.
Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/274
And Allaah knows best.
your grand mufti non-the-less. well former, he is dead. too bad you could have asked him face to face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Aziz_ibn_Baz
Stop stalking me, stop addressing me and stop following me.
that’s a no comment on how you and a scholar have the exact opposite opinions on who are the musrikeen?
1. Dont trust Islam-qa.
2. Associating scholars having a correct opinion all the time is also shirk, and ignorance.
3. If Jews are mushrikeen then why is every prophet after abraham and before muhammed a Jew?
Why don’t you ask a Muslim? He’ll never be able to reconcile Mohammed’s hatred of the Jews to the Jewish heritage of Abraham. Mohammed was for this and then for that in a very contradictory manner that should have the consequence of running off anyone who would consider being an adherent to his Quran. It takes the suspension of reason and a mixture of ignorance and stupidity to be a Muslim. Mohammed was confused little man, probably a psychopath, considering how many people he murdered in the name of his god.
Writing nonsense in long complex words without evidence doesn’t get you anywhere. Retry college for the sake of you and the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
You make me watch a 44 minute video that doesn’t answer my questions because you can’t make up your own arguments?
Also from your comment history, despite being proven wrong and wrong again, you continue to hold your stubborn AND ignorant opinions.
Islam is not a violent nor peaceful religion, but if YOU are the violent person, YOUR Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism or whatever ideology you have is going to be violent.
Throwing the word ‘ignorant’ doesn’t make you any smarter. It just reflects your insecurities. And that’s okay, I have mine, you have yours. The way you throw the word ‘ignorant’ however, and your inability to answer what I asked you and instead pulling out a thesaurus and if that doesn’t work then a video from one single point of view, shows something about you.
Also, you aren’t conversing anything.
Pat Condell explains why non-Muslims are sick of Islam.
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/01/31/pat-condell-we-cant-afford-anymore-tolerance/
Clearly, Muslim Girl, you detest free speech. You should be ashamed of yourself. If this group defacing Geller’s ads wanted to post some of their own, they should have paid for the space as Geller did. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/01/30/no-pasting-over-anti-islam-ads-with-images-of-ms-marvel-isnt-free-speech/
Geller brings her Message of Hate&Division to Texas in May with a $10,000.00 Prize Contest of Comics mocking Allah.
Her method within Texas may well cause her Fall.
She came to Texas and acted like she was some Rock Star.
The Relations between Texans and Muslims at this time is Non-Problematic.
Geller seeks to change this and many see this as Foolishness on her part. I personally e-mailed her and tried to speak to her civilly and she Threatened me saying she was going to contact Law Enforcement about me when I said nor did nothing wrong. This is the way of a New Yorker simply looking to Cash-Up on Islam and ITS SICKENING! Like I told her..
“You will come to Texas and cause Division if not start a War” while you Scurry away with your Bodyguards,Safe in your Limo back to New York.
I made it clear to her in my e-mail that Im against those Islamist Jihadis that seek a Worldwide Caliphate while at the same time I realized SHE desires a Caliphate that could result in the Death&Destruction of Many.
Her Contest requires a Minimum Ticket Purchase for General Admission of $50.00 with the Best Seat netting $250.00. Do you See? A Pathetic excuse to Cash-In on others.
I Urge Texans to Turn Away from such Hate Mongers only seeking Personal Gain.
For We Texans…When the time comes…Will be amply able to handle any Islamic Jihadi Issues if such arise. Until then…We don’t require a Money Mongrel to push the Issue.