#MuslimGirlFire

Meet the Muslim Pro-Gun Immigration Lawyer Running for Senate

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  • Grrrl Power

    This woman is not a Muslim. She is a captive of a Muslim husband. You celebrate these phoney converts, but they are the ones most likely to induce a backlash on Islam when they can put up with it longer and spill the beans.

    You can’t cage a bird born free and expect it to be the same bird.

    • Suzanne Shahadah

      “Phony converts”…I have to ask, what, in your mind, makes someone a “real” convert besides, um…CONVERTING? Sigh.

      I’m Canadian and so haven’t followed this woman’s political career, but I say good for her, and good for Muslim Girl for showcasing her achievements.

      • Grrrl Power

        It is highly unlikely that this woman believes in Islam. She is probably too bright. She has been bullied into it by a Muslim husband. Islam can only exist through fear and force.

        The minute she splits up with her husband, she will leave Islam and she will become an outspoken opponent of it.

        • Suzanne Shahadah

          So very funny. Probably unintentional, on your part. Please go tell, for example, Amina Wadud that the only women who convert are those who aren’t intelligent.

          • Grrrl Power

            The fact her father was a Methodist minister means that she was just rebelling.

            Put a shotgun against her head and she will cry for her Daddy.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Not sure where you get any of your conclusions. Converts come from a variety of backgrounds; unless you know this woman personally, you have no ability to comment on her choices. Her Islam is between her and God; you and your judgements form no part of it. It seems like you have a hard time with that idea.

          • Grrrl Power

            Of course I have a hard time with it because I want to dismantle Islam for the good of the human race. We have bigger problems to solve and Islam is getting in the way.

            A child with a basic knowledge of mathematical predicates and propositional calculus can destroy Islam.

            I could do a youtube video tomorrow that would completely disprove Islam, but that would temporarily cause greater problems as I imagine that one billion muslims would suddenly revert to their original faith which (I’m a scientist not a historian BTW) I imagine would be Jewish, and that would cause potential social upheaval.

            You still haven’t given an example of an intelligent Muslim who converted naturally.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            While it’s not actually my responsibility to provide you with a list of resources (asking others to do your homework for you is a jerk manoeuvre), I will point out that I DID give you an example of an amazing convert: Amina Wadud. I’m reluctant to write you a lengthy annotated list of the many brilliant converts out there (since I’m tapping this out on a cellphone), but for the benefit of anyone besides you who is reading this, I’ll point out my two faves, Amina Wadud and Scott Kugle. Both feminist authors. Try Wikipedia for more info (as in, do your own work).

            Your YouTube video. All I can say is, go ahead and have your fun. Link it on here so we can all entertain ourselves at your expense. But remember that actions speak louder than words, so until you DO both create and post your stunningly awesome video, you should probably not brag about it.

            And last: if you hate Islam so much, why are you lurking on this site?

            Ok, that’s enough typing on the keyboard of a phone for now!

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Ooh yes! Her: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Willow_Wilson

            G. Willow Wilson = super-awesome!

          • Grrrl Power

            She nor the academic are Muslims; at best cultural Muslims as their work is so entwined with the Arab world.

            That cartoonist is especially cynical, exploiting a market opportunity for financial reasons.

            They think they’re Muslims, but they don’t ultimately decide. The non-Muslim majority of the world will democratically and objectively decide who is Muslim or not. And we are telling you now that those are not Muslims.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Do you actually know how a person converts to Islam? I mean the literal steps, not the personal inner process of spiritual reflection. To be brief, non-Muslims do not, in any way, get to decide who is or is not Muslim. Being Muslim is between the individual and God. If a person, with sincere intention to convert, gives his or her shahadah (declaration of faith) before witnesses, he or she is then Muslim. They “count”, whether or not they are also married to a Muslim; whether or not they publish works to do with Islam; whether or not they wear hijab; whether or not they run for political office; whatever else. If they said their shahadah and meant it, they are Muslim. You know who REALLY ultimately decides? God.

            I really have no idea what your criteria are for what makes someone a “real Muslim”. It seems like converting, practising the faith, and both publicly and privately living as identified Muslims doesn’t make your cut. So…what in the world DOES? And…why should actual Muslims, converts or not, take your definitions of us into account?

          • Grrrl Power

            Firstly please stop capitalising words for emphasis as it can appear aggressive.

            I don’t care about your definition of Islam, I simply want to move forward and provide an alternative. I have a 3 pronged attack:

            1) Judaism: monotheism with the least surfeit of prophets.
            2) Buddhism for the meditative and praying a lot aspect.
            3) Paintball for the Jihad bit.

            I am actually drawing up a patent for a such a theme park that will deprogram Muslims. Imagine doing paintball in and around Buddhist temples.

            And yes, there will be a bar serving alcohol.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Between your YouTube video and your patented theme park, you sure are busy! Again, words are NO substitute for actions, so if you DO have all these wonderful, world-changing plans, um…where are they? Oh wait, I forgot: the massive global societal shakedown you’d surely cause. Hm.

            A friend of mine recently read this comment thread and pointed out that you tend to use the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. I hadn’t heard of it, but in researching it I found this definition: it is the attempt to “protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample …This fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule”. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman).

            This sounds like your comments. To recap your main points throughout this exchange:
            Comment 1: You focus on “phoney converts” but do not define what you think constitutes a real or sincere convert.
            Comment 2: You reiterate the “captive” theme, but don’t address my question about your definition of “phoney” converts.
            Comment 3: You declare, absent reason, that being the child of Methodists AUTOMATICALLY MEANS one’s conversion is simply rebellion. Still no definitions, reasons, or compelling arguments are provided.
            Comment 4: “Math and YouTube can defeat Islam and I can do that but no argh social upheavalllzzzzz!!!” You go on to ignore/deny my earlier comment pointing out Amina Wadud and Scott Kugle.
            Comment 5: In a grammatically odd phrase, you decide that Amina Wadud and Scott Kugle, both converts, are IN REALITY “cultural Muslims”. You also – without explaining how – tell me that non-Muslim get to decide who counts as Muslim.
            Comment 6: Now you’ve decided to design a theme park. And you have a “3 pronged attack”, which is actually a list rather than a plan of attack or a defined approach to problem-solving. But hey – alcohol!!!

            How…does paintball…around BUDDHIST TEMPLES….”deprogram” Muslims? I. Can’t. Even. Just gonna go read that line to my family; they will also get a huge kick out of it. I’m having more fun with you than I’ve had in AGES of comment-reading! Whee!

            Lastly, I have no intention of listening to your tone-policing about my USE OF CAPITAL LETTERS for emphasis (http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/tone-policing-and-privilege/). If you plan to keep commenting here, you should know that me AND MY AGRESSIVE LETTERS are going to be right here to gleefully type back. Happy plotting!

          • Grrrl Power

            tldr;

            here’s a new one:

            CLGSC

            capital letters? go stand in the corner.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Cute. Will probably use. Did you look up the concept of tone policing, btw? You’re still doing the No True Scotsman thing. 😉

          • Grrrl Power

            1) You cute too
            2) Good
            3) No
            4) What?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Where’s your “clear, on-topic, and detailed post”? This is a random video.

            Are you done with the conversation? I’ll check back in tonight, but I’m not going to bother to reply to silly stuff from you. Be serious or go away.

          • Grrrl Power

            I know you’ll check up on me, because your deprogramming has commenced and it would be dangerous to back out at this point.

            And when – as a Muslim woman with the same legal status as a chicken – you have your epiphany, you will deprogram another 2 people, and they each will deprogram another 2 and we will all elegantly dismantle Islam in a sexy geometric pattern.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Is THAT your clear and well-reasoned reply? I guess it is, kind of, tangentially, barely, on topic….sort of…

            Come on, surely you can do better than that!

          • Grrrl Power

            Out of 1 billion, please provide us with an example of an intelligent muslim convert who:

            1) Wasn’t introduced to Islam by a partner
            2) Wasn’t originally religious
            3) Didn’t originally work in any capacity with the Arab or Islamic world

            If you removed the need and pressure to be muslim from Muslim countries, then very soon 50% of the population would walk away from Islam.

            50% being the proportion of people of higher than average intelligence. Islam is nothing but a political construct for governing poor people.

            There is no God, just as there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster. And you are wasting your time and your life.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Well, at least you have (kind of) managed to stay on topic this time. Well done you! However, it’s increasingly clear that you’re not actually reading anything I say (in which case, why are you bothering to engage with me?) nor are you following up on any of the people I have mentioned. Oh well. I did my bit to educate you; now it’s up to you. I have REPEATEDLY given you some names of smart converts, who consider themselves feminists, who did not convert because they married a Muslim, and who didn’t start out working in majority-Muslim countries: Amina Wadud. Scott Kugle. G. Willow Wilson. Heck, some of the writers on the MuslimGirl site! A bunch of my friends, who there’s no reason for me to cite because of course you wouldn’t know them. These folks and I are in accord about many things and disagree on many others because Islam is as multifaceted and diverse as its believers. If you can’t be bothered to look up the famous ones and actually read their stuff, that’s your decision. I believe you are the poorer for it, not because I hope to convert you (a personal choice if ever there was one!) but because you might learn something.

            I read over your comments again, and overall you seem like less of a jerk than many non-Muslim folks who troll around on Muslim sites (just to be COMPLETELY clear, simply being a non-Muslim on a Muslim site doesn’t make someone a troll!). You continually try to move the goalposts when commenting, but you don’t swear, you don’t use too many obvious slurs, and your grammar and spelling are reasonably lucid. Which makes me wonder, who are you that this is taking so much of your time? I wouldn’t say I’m “enjoying” our conversation, but I stick with it because it’s relevant to me as a Muslim and especially as a Muslim parent: I want my kids to inherit a world where folks like you are literally the worst of the haters they will encounter, rather than among the more polite. But if you seriously have issues with Islam and Muslims, your way of “correcting” us seems, at best… kinda futile. Are you just very, very new to engaging with people whose beliefs are different from your own (that’s not intended as an insult; I just have no real sense of who you are)?

            Btw, are you finding our comments seem to not be linear anymore? Are you replying to earlier ones or something?

          • Grrrl Power

            I want to correct Islam because it is not what you think it is, and it’s just embarrassing watching people being part of it. You don’t need an off the shelf religion to have a connection to any potential higher power.

            Just as Jesus appropriated the Abramamic tradition to create a political revolution, Mohammed had the same bright idea but to create a system of governance with a built in legal system and policing system based on deterrence. Policing on the cheap, as they say.

            You should embroider that last paragraph on cushions and give them to your children when they are ready. If you promise to do this for me, I shall let you go about your business in peace.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            You said “…it’s just embarrassing watching people being part of it”.

            But YOU are the one who chose to visit and endlessly comment on a Muslim site. No one is tying you to your desk, propping your eyelids open, and gluing your hands to your keyboard. If you’re “embarrassed”, you have choices. Personally, I tend to choose NOT to engage with stuff I’d find embarrassing.

            You said “You don’t need an off the shelf religion to have a connection to any potential higher power”.

            I agree. Again, though, you don’t get to determine anyone’s spiritual choices for them. If I, or anyone, wants to belong to an organized religion, that’s up to us.

            You said you would “let (me) go about my business in peace”.

            I think you’re overestimating your importance and your influence. I’m on this site because I enjoy MG; I’m engaging with you because I’m argumentative, long-winded, and entertained by the dumb things you say (my fave so far has been the Buddhist-temple-paintball theme park…wow). But you don’t exactly disturb my peace.

            And…seriously…embroider on cushions? What Orientalist fantasy are you entertaining about my home decor?

          • Grrrl Power

            Where you at? I’ve got quality iPad time with you the next couple of hours.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Where am I at? I’m still waiting for some kind of clear, on-topic, and detailed post from you. I’m beginning to suspect I’m going to have a very long wait…

            By the way, I haven’t deleted any of my comments, but I DO edit when I realise I’ve made typos. That’s probably what you’re seeing.

          • Grrrl Power

            You’re already deleting and editing your comments.

            If this is all about Islam, then Islam can patently not be trusted.

          • Suzanne Shahadah

            Not deleting (not sure what you’re thinking of there), but I DO edit for typos and, if necessary, grammar/sentence-flow. What do you think was previously here that is gone?

          • Grrrl Power

            Sleep tight Ilisha

            Don’t let the bugs bite.