#MuslimGirlFit

One Muslim Girl’s Thoughts on Marriage

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  • A.

    Jazak’Allahu Khairan for the post. Kinda going through this myself – though I’m a guy/bro :p. I’m at a much later stage in life than college, so already at the the “it’s about time” speeches from family and loved ones. Still one major thing.step to achieve though, so I’m “safe” for now lol.

  • Munna

    If you don’t have the desire to marry nor find yourself capable to take up the responsibilities associated with it then don’t marry. Seems like getting married has been made a must to Muslims. If you find someone whom you’re comfortable with to live and share then you can very well go for it but if it doesn’t and you’re comfortable with your independent self then so be it. You could manage without it, no need to mentally wreck yourself.

    • Just Saying

      what’s up munna? guess you have never heard the muslim saying, ‘marriage is half your deen (faith). there used to be a great website called expirednfabulous.com (it has been down for a while) that talked about the pressure on arab/muslim girls to marry before the age of 25, that is were the expired part comes in. but I thought the Indians were big on arranged marriages as well?
      mike

      • Munna

        Hi Mike, another changed account…how’s life these days.
        Regarding marriage as an institution, the world over it is transforming. Many fear for the worst. It’s all to do with women’s emancipation. Women has never been so involved in getting exposure to sense of freedom compared to the past. Muslim world doesn’t need to be left out.
        As women work for the earning, get pleasure in enjoying the life on their own terms, it’s to be expected that it would be some sort of downer if terms like marriage, having children, taking up responsibilities for looking after them when often the menfolk will just go selfish. The fear of a women just expressed in the article are just a pointer, there’re much more to it but Muslim women tend to downplay it and try to still make up with things like there’s nothing so good as having a marriage after all when they do know that they can’t go the whole hog i.e. to lead life on their own terms. However, the fear expressed in the article can just be termed as a start, there’s the likelihood that more will come out as bolder ideas are attempted by Muslim women in general.

        • Just Saying

          life is good. yeah had to create another account after you (jk) and el cid got me banned from Rebecca’s site. she has since welcomed me back (at least this account), but I think she may be regretting that now. we don’t exactly see eye to eye on the ‘black lives matter’ movement.
          yeah, women have more choices now and therefore more expectations. but I don’t think the concept of the wali (the male as the guardian – maintainer and protector) is going anywhere soon in islam. it’s funny but back in the 90s there was this group called the ‘promise keepers’. they were Christian men who where calling for men to take back their roles as the head of house hold. and pretty much saying women need to be subservient to their husbands. they were filling football (not soccer) stadiums, selling out to 50-60,000. the liberal feminists were getting all upset about it. muslims say the same thing all the time and no one bats an eye.
          btw, whole hog. that was funny, but was it intended?

          • Asham

            (but I don’t think the concept of the wali (the male as the guardian – maintainer and protector) is going anywhere soon in islam).I THOUGHT IT WAS ONLY IN GULF STATES(few). and second of all there is no concept as such of wali in Quran. if you read muslim history the concept of male guardian is rather dependent on time and place. It was not the case in Prophets time. Before saudi state women were not imposed such kind of restrictions under ottomans. it will go soon as its not even a concept of Quranic Islam.

          • Just Saying

            Asham, where ya been. I think it is, at least partially derived from verse 4:34. And of course many hadiths.

            It is pretty universal in islam that the female needs a male walis permission to wed. And there is little debate about the husband being in charge.

            I would give you links but I’m on my phone.

          • Asham

            I know that verse and its implications. But it is only limited only in relation for sex for the case of propagation not in case of sex for pleasure. I am sorry to say there is not much debate here other. the things it does not mean is as follows 1. It does not mean husband can have a piece of his wifes property 2. it does not mean husband can beat wife to death. 3. it does not mean women cannot work without permission of husbands 4.It does not mean women or wife cannot take khula or take divorce. 5. Abuse by husband or infertility are well known factors for divorce by wife. I know because it happened in Ottoman code of law and am pretty sure about it. Too much good things against your claim its pretty universal in islam that the female needs a male walis permission to wed. Only father if you seek in absolute terms. If he is not alive then the thing is open to interpretation. There is no provision in Quran by the way that marriage of a woman is anulled if father does not agree to it or marriage is legit without womens consent. I know there are random fatwas and hadiths that can be used as counter but I certainly unfortunately cannot agree its in Quran

          • Just Saying

            [4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

            not sure what this procreation vs recreation sex part you are talking about?

          • Asham

            There are many verses regarding the arabic paragraph. Some say admonish them some say you beat(Loved by Radical muslims and non muslims alike). Another one is as follows
            Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband’s] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance – [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand. Followed by And if you fear dissension between the two, send an arbitrator from his people and an arbitrator from her people. If they both desire reconciliation, Allah will cause it between them. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Acquainted [with all things]. Why do people forget the last verse following it.

          • Just Saying

            why do people forget: “Allah will cause it between them. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Acquainted [with all things” lol. because it is silly and only goes to show the stupidity of religion. so allah will cause something that people already want to do?

          • Just Saying

            http://www.islam.gov.my/sites/default/files/wali_in_islam.pdf

            http://www.peopleofsunnah.com/fiqh/rulings/marriage/62.html

            “The Shafi’i, Maliki and Hanbali schools say that nikah entered into by a woman herself, without the permission of her wali, is invalid and void. The Hanafi ruling on this matter is that a woman can enter into a marital contract by herself without permission from her wali. The definition of such a “woman” will come later on and it does not incorporate every woman.” – the hanafi let a previously married woman marry without the permission of a wali.

            http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=88324

            and from my favorite Saudi cleric:
            http://islamqa.info/en/20928
            “Islam forbids a woman to get married without a wali (guardian), and it regards a marriage contract done without a wali as invalid. A kaafir cannot be the wali of a Muslim woman, so if none of her family are Muslims, then the leader or mufti of the Muslims, or the imam of the Islamic center, should stand in as her wali.”

          • Asham

            and from my favorite Saudi cleric He seems to be your favorite cleric not mine just saying. Also muslims are not only diviided into Shafi, Maliki etc. There are many sub divisions within Islam and these are no strict divisions among Islam like there are divisions among orthodoxy, Catholics and protestants among christians. And besides there are many non denominational muslims too always has been always will but that is something you wont understand. I know you can provide different things in your support regarding this issue and infact I can provide you a hadith where a womans marriage was dissolved by Prophet due to lack of her consent. Also Quran forbids marriage without consent of both partners. Its forbidden to marry without consent of woman yet there is not even a single verse in Quran that says so that woman marriage is null and void without consent of her father. Produce a verse that I cannot remember

          • Just Saying

            yes, I said he is mine.
            yes there are many sects and subsects in islam. and obviously some are non-sectarian. everyone knows this. right now I’m talking with an ahmadi. what do you think of the ahmadis. do you agree with Pakistan ordinance XX?
            let’s see this marriage that was dissolved in a hadith. the only one I’ve seen is when a girl asks if her marriage could be dissolved because she didn’t consent. but she didn’t actually want a divorce.
            not sure who said anything about consent of the bride, I know I didn’t. but since you bring it up. what of this concept of a virgin’s silence is consent?
            so can a muslim woman marry a non-muslim man?

          • Asham

            Yes someone I know did kind of marriage. Thank you for asking the question. But on second thoughts does Quran completely disallows such kind of marriage or even if bible or for that matter any other religion allows it.

          • Just Saying

            http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/society-and-family/interfaith-issues/461537-can-a-muslim-women-marry-a-non-muslim-man.html
            I don’t know what the Koran says, it is unclear. the book is poorly written, as is the bible. these are supposed to be divine texts from your ‘all-knowing’ god. seems a simple question to me. why are these supposed ‘holy’ text so unclear?

          • Asham

            Propagation means for purpose of having a child. Even christianity and Judaism lays down the prime duty of wife to husband is to have children. But interestingly they dont have concept of divorce or for that matter female inheritance incase if male heirs are present

          • Just Saying

            ok. so what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

          • Asham

            Everything from western perspective.If 9-11 could be used to lynch Iraq WMDs LOL(with no direct link at all) or inconsistencies or controversial texts(not always followed by muslims) can be used by west to destroy two countries, lead civil wars in many others and steal a whole generation of muslims both psychologically and financially and morally it has everthing to do with price of tea in china. Alas what does opium(banned in britain) had to do with price of tea in china everything. What does hideous practices in Old Testament got to do with Jews and Christians Nothing. What has it got to do with Russians everything. The very fact that USA trusts in god is because ussr was atheist and Yuri gagarin said that there is no god. He did not see him up there. This send a chill through US estabilishment. Meaning using texts of religion(mostly misrepresented) and bombarding a whole generation with propaganda so that they hate everything regarding their heritage and culture while stealthily defending there war crimes and a glorious past of america(built on graves of native americans. You can laugh on this Joke on thanksgiving day) is a little bit hosh posh. You want common sense only when it suits you.When confronted on it , it goes out of window. Did you know that british used war rape to crush the 1857 revolt of India and used it as a pretext to actually rape india out of its resources for next 200 years. Well after a history of justification of Apartheid, massacres(like the one in Algeria, Kenya and almost all Africa) I think losing colonies in America could be used as a pretext to conquer India using war rape by natives among English girls(what the hell they were doing there anyways) leading to British raj which led to growing of Opium and forcing china to trade opium with Tea so as to save British gold reserves and FOR SAKE OF HUMANITY(WEST OFCOURSE). Not limited to british but French, Russian, American, Dutch, German etc.

          • Just Saying

            you are very hard to follow dude. what does any of this have to do with islam? from the opium wars to ‘in god we trust’ on money, you are all over the place.

            btw 1857 to 1947 is not 200 years.

            “What does hideous practices in Old Testament got to do with Jews and Christians Nothing” true, you know why? because no jewish (of course there is only one) or Christian nations go by those hideous practices.

          • Asham

            Meaning killing teenagers and handing them knives is not hideous lol. Even Bush has gone in Iraq saying it was holy crusades. Exactly what I am saying here you had no reason to interfere or attack muslim countries politically. Was saddams iraq an Islamic republic. I dont think so. As far as your last statement is concerned yes as a matter of fact many non muslim countries do such type of things. Phillipines disallows divorce. You are wrong here and that is not the only case I assure you

          • Just Saying

            “Meaning killing teenagers and handing them knives” what are you talking about. I don’t get your reference?
            yes bush used the word crusade, and for that and many other things, he was an idiot. well as you point out, Iraq wasn’t an “Islamic” republic. so we didn’t attack a muslim country. oh wait, you want it both ways. so muslim countries can attack non-muslim countries, or other muslim countries, and that is fine. but if a non-muslim country attacks a muslim country it has to be wrong? lol.
            so the Philippines doesn’t allow divorce, lmfao. congratulations, you found the one country in the world that goes by catholic doctrine on one instance. that hardly equates to killing an apostate or an adulterer. or the blasphemy laws you find in Islamic countries.

          • Asham

            so muslim countries can attack non-muslim countries, or other muslim countries, and that is fine. but if a non-muslim country attacks a muslim country it has to be wrong? lol. eah right which muslim country attacked and completely annihlated or colonised or interfered in internal affairs of muslim countries in past century. Oh wait NADA. If a muslim country attacks another muslim country it does not justify you can attack muslim countries ok. you found the one country in the world that goes by catholic doctrine Only one

          • Just Saying

            none in the past century. the ottomans were kicked out of Greece in 1820. history didn’t begin 100 years ago. muslims seem quite proud of their colonization in the past, in there empires. but since they started to lose grown, colonization and empire has become an evil thing.

            “If a muslim country attacks another muslim country it does not justify you can attack muslim countries ok.” well that is not the way it happened. saddam went into Kuwait and we and the british, along with a bunch of other countries and the UN said he needed to get out. i personally didn’t care.

            only one that doesn’t allow divorce. maybe you can add the Vatican, but that is more like an office park than a country. and I don’t know if you have heard, but the catholics has this new crazy pope who is non-judgmental. even they manage to evolve, while the muslims retract to the 7th century. but I’m all for removing catholic doctrine from any governance. so are you for removing Islamic doctrine from governance in the Islamic world?

          • Asham

            Price of TEA can be compared with that of Coffee. Both fulfill the same thirst. Its always good to know what all of them had to offer and what in many cases actually they have to offer

          • Just Saying

            what the jews, Christians and muslims have to offer is a very bad tea or coffee. what does that have to do with the concept of the male wali in islam?

          • Munna

            Well, the lady was going to ban me too, earlier I used to be stubborn and get banned often but you know, people get wise (Liars) as they get experience. I think, you’ve got enough about me to know when I’m using false words.
            Regarding Muslim society, although I’m not one but do know from interactions that this marriage thing is mostly to do with the concept of treating your offsprings too. Let’s consider children as property and when you got a large family as most Muslim often have then it is likely that the property is traded/married however, when the property is scarce i.e. 1 or 2 of the children then it can be somehow aspired to be possessed. The same thing is happening in Indian families these days. As you know, people aren’t dying early due to advancement of healthcare, and families are getting nuclear thus, there’s sorta disincentive to let the property be traded to another when you got it in scarce number. You gotta look after your old age requirements and thus although it seems too selfish a concept, letting their wards gets married is subtly discouraged these days now in many urban settings. However, Muslims are changing albeit slowly as they often cling to older set of values.
            Regarding feminist or other concepts for muslim women, it’s just still a new word yet to be known among the mostly uneducated females in Muslim societies in poorer countries. Although, they might be educated in the sense that they can read-n-write, but they are educated under indoctrination program of Islamic studies-n-values, not real education hence, not good enough to assess or impact any change in mindset of ladies/females in general.
            Regarding writing things with intention, off-course, you should expect these things from somewhat old bloggers, they aren’t expected to even curse or praise without having a motive.

          • Just Saying

            yet there is hope for even the muslims. at least the arabs with oil. checkout the UAE drop.

            http://www.prb.org/pdf05/marriageinarabworld_eng.pdf

          • Munna

            It seems the winds of change are somehow catching up with Arabs too but still Arabs aren’t the most populous Muslim countries. There are others too who have much bigger population of Muslims for instance in India. Here the changes are slow among Muslim community just because of higher rate of illiteracy and poor economic conditions compare to others. Nevertheless, as pointed out earlier, there’s the trend of not getting married at all in this age. Single mother concepts are on the rise, live-in relationships are preferred now-a-days with little chance of getting to the altar of marriage mostly in big city urban settings. People are somewhat swayed by the big celebrities and many celebrities/movie stars are single mothers or unmarried thus setting trends.

          • Just Saying

            yes Indonesia is the most populous muslim nation. Pakistan, Bangladesh and India are next, not necessarily in that order. arabs are only 20-22% of muslims, but they are often the most hardcore about traditions. i’ll have to checkout demographic trends in southeastern asia. other than y’all have a shit ton of people crammed in there, I’m not too familiar with current birth rates. surprisingly, I just hear earlier this year that the Persians/Iranians are down to a 1.4 birth rate. so they seem to have reversed the grand ayatollahs plan of ‘we will our bred the infidels’. they have done this mainly by keeping their females in school longer.

          • Munna

            I can only say about Indian Muslims in this matter. My family did have financed earlier the creation of school for Muslim girls although being Hindu in our ancestral home and this has really helped matters in upliftment of women there in general from my experiences. From the interactions I gather, there’s still a lot to be achieved. Most of the Muslims girls are still not educated, many a times they are not left with any choice other than to marry as incestuous relations often happen among poor Muslim families and many girls get raped/incestuous relations by their own cousin brothers thus resulting in early marriage. However, there’s also a noticeable change from the Arab culture, here the women family have to pay a sort of dowry amount to the male bride if the male happens to be belonging from well-settled (having job or status) family. Although, in Islam it’s the male who have to pay the girl at the time of marriage (Mehr) but it is followed only in symbolic terms, generally the bride family have to pay a heavy price. The custom of dowry payments is copied from other religion i.e. Hinduism where the bride family pays to the groom side. It’s different from maybe Arabian countries where the male groom has to pay a heavy price for the girl’s hand.
            Regarding birth rate it’s still quite high in Indian Muslims. Although it’s getting down but many factors are not making it manageable.

          • Just Saying

            yeah I’ve seen muslim websites decry the dowry system in india and they say that muslims have copied the hindus in the bride’s family paying a dowry instead of the groom paying the mehr. there are even some ‘burning brides’ among the muslim I hear.
            the entire non-industrialized world needs to get its birthrate down.

          • Munna

            Well, the dowry system among Muslims have some other aspects as well. Generally, it depends on your economic status, while the poor Muslim families somehow tend to avoid it by marrying their daughters early to whomsoever (generally cousins), it’s the educated, better economic condition holding families that have to find the groom and they have to pay the price for that (dowry). It is also to be noted that strangely not much emphasis is made on morality, teaching sex-education to males/females or to generally admonish the male guy if he happens to keep an eye on his own relative. I remember being in argument in real life with a Muslim elder when he doesn’t admonish his wayward son for his pervert ways, he just shrugged and said, that in Islam marriage is permitted among cousins. I didn’t know whether that is true or false as I didn’t know the relevant Hadith or Surah of Quran.
            On another point, modern trends are catching up and educated girls tend to follow their desires in whatever way they deem fit. It has been noticed that marriage in grown-up age 25-30 does bring the child-birth rate down. I hope that as education catches up among Muslim girls, birth-rate will also decline as they don’t have to bear many childrens due to early marriage.

          • Just Saying

            yeah, they can marry cousins. funny but the muslims over on loonwatch and old el cid seem to think that it is the hindus that are incestuous. perspective is always humorous.

            here is the part of the Koran laying out who they can and can’t marry:

            [4.19] O you who believe! it is not lawful for you that you should take women as heritage against (their) will, and do not straiten them in order that you may take part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty of manifest indecency, and treat them kindly; then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it.
            [4.20] And if you wish to have (one) wife in place of another and you have given one of them a heap of gold, then take not from it anything; would you take it by slandering (her) and (doing her) manifest wrong?
            [4.21] And how can you take it when one of you has already gone in to the other and they have made with you a firm covenant?
            [4.22] And marry not woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way.
            [4.23] Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers’ daughters and sisters’ daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
            [4.24] And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah’s ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
            [4.25] And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

          • Munna

            That’s interesting stuff. However, I’m not in favor of marrying relatives as there are many diseases associated with marrying near-relatives over a long period of time or generations. Did have seen many family inherited diseases.
            Do you have any link that say the modern thinking about marrying distance that should be maintained if any?

          • Just Saying

            yes:

            http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-23183102

            and you would thing god would know this. there was also an article about an organized gang who used kids with birth defects as beggars. I can’t remember if it was in Pakistan or India.

          • Munna

            Well, the article research was based mainly on UK experience. It could have been better if the research was done in Pakistan or other Muslim countries. I do have a feeling that birth defect rate is much higher than told by the researchers as there are numerous diseases rampant which I see often. I will google it later if any research have been done in India as yet.

          • Just Saying

            the studies I’ve seen is that you go from a 1-2% chance to a 2-4% chance of severe mental retardation when marrying first cousins. in the US it is legal in some states but not others. I don’t know if anyone has looked at second cousins or so forth. you would hope so. I think the most widely known defect is hemophilia, some minor blood issue. maybe their blood is too thin or won’t coagulate? it might compromise their immune system? you don’t here much about it anymore. I think it was common among European royalty because all of the marrying to secure alliances.
            funny, at the YMCA this morning there was a table for sickle cell anemia. I would think that would be a huge increase in possibility if cousins married. y’all might not have sickle cell in India, it is a mostly Africa disease as far as the US goes.

          • Munna

            Well, there are other diseases which are termed as family inherited ones. For instance baldness, various skin diseases(white rashes-n-spots etc.), albino children and off-course stunted growth (mental retardation).
            It’s in mostly Muslim families that I have seen Albino children, generally they suffer social ostracisation of some kind or degrees. Although, in many other families from other religions albino’s are found but the prevalence among Muslims is greater. These Albino’s have their own various problems like weak immune system, weak eyesight, weaker mental growth. Often, they have to face marriage problem as they have to make-do with other albino’s offsprings which are hard to find. It seems that having white skin is the greatest curse sometimes looking at these albino’s plight.

          • Just Saying

            I found this to be an interesting article as I just followed, or should I say trolled, asham over to this site.

            http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/29030/is-it-compulsory-to-hate-india-america-and-israel-in-order-to-love-pakistan/

            seems to be quite a bit of disagreement on how the hindus treat the muslims in india. asham says y’all discriminate against them.

          • Munna

            I’ve visited that article page earlier, posted comment also but it seems the entire Pakistan is aware of my name Munna and thus, they never appear on various sites. Regarding this guy Asham, many of his points are utter lies. Often Pakistanis also post comments posing as Indians. On his saying that there is divisions in society in India, it’s true as Muslims tend to live in their own ghettos and might find it somewhat not easy to migrate to Hindu colonies. However, these ghettos or colonies also change due to migration or other factors. Regarding, particular faith holidays being celebrated or not, his assertions are lies, the list of holidays is known in advance, anybody can raise objection if he feels discriminated, admissions also don’t discriminate, one can sue them in Court if one finds any. Private Institutions generally follows their own calendar of holidays and rules of admission. Regarding marriage between people holding different faiths, it’s matter of contention in rural or conservative surroundings not in bigger urban areas but generally people do take recourse to marrying in Court, however, enticing people to become friendly or engage in talks of bonding/marriage/proposal, it should be left to the individual choice.

          • Just Saying

            maybe he had a very unique experience that was technically outside of the law or the overall nature of India.

          • Munna

            Maybe, he might have experiences but generally in big urban cities, it hardly matter now-a-days that you belong from which faith. In Mumbai for example, there has been cases of Muslim families not been allowed to live in Hindu societies but they have been already told of that. In personal interaction or work related relations, faith hardly matters in cities. And again, I’m not making any excuse but just saying that divisions do exist due to faith but they’re on the wane as competition and education increases.

  • ayeyay

    I’m at that point in my life where I don’t want to consider marriage and I was hoping to find some comfort that I’m not an outsider through this article.